Avid Flyer and Rotax 503 help and advice please

[Spitfire]

Hi all. Complete (and I mean complete) newbie here. Apologies in advance. I am taking flying lessons and want a cheap to operate little hour builder. My homework led me to an Avid or kitfox.

Now, I have seen one for sale without a permit in my price range. Please could I get some comments on these questions. Thank you in advance.

1) should i bother with an avid B at all as a trainer / hour builder?

2) it has a rotax 503 that has stood unstarted for around 6 years. Is this model of engine ok and reliable for a 2 stroke? Only 80 hours but will it need completely stripping and rebuilding seals etc due to being stood? Should i scrap the 803 and go for a 4 stroke as i hear 2 stroke just quit often enough to scare the pants off me. Are parts hard to come by for an 803?

3) flaperons! I hear horror stories about these. As I am learning to fly then should I be worried about flaperons and associated lack of authority? Also flaperons attachments I hear can come loose as wood can get wet and rot? Do they need to have drains? Do you need bother using the flaps with the avid.

4) is an Avid Flyer ok to learn on or tricky. It is a tricycle by the way.

5) given it has been stood in a barn for 6 ish years but was ok when last flown then what is likely to be needed to renew permit? Wiring checks for vermin perhaps? What should I be checking that is obvious to you chaps? Fabric? Measure tail to wing tip for signs of being bent?

6) anyone recommend a good LAA inspector who knows these aircraft inside out?

7) anyone recommend a good person to offer instruction using one of these?

[Brian Hope]

Hi Gordon, as no Avid/Kitfox owners have yet come back to you I’ll see if I can offer some meaningful advice. My only caveat is that I am not an Avid/Kitfox owner and as such will probably incur the wrath of those who are fans of the two types, which in their early Marks were very similar.
The early Avids/Kitfoxes had interesting handling traits, particularly adverse yaw that demanded that you used the rudder to co-ordinate turns. They also never had the best roll response, particularly with the flaperons deflected. Finally, their lightweight and peaky (compared to a four-stroke) power delivery gave them exciting take-off performance in that it went from opening the throttle to charging off down the runway very quickly.
My personal view is that they are not an ideal first aeroplane for a new and inexperienced pilot but, if you have limited options and understand the issues – and get some good instruction – you would probably find it a fun machine.
You do not mention price but, as this example has been standing around a long time its value is, shall we say, not great. The 503 is generally reckoned to be the best of the Rotax two-strokes and has been around for a long time but as you say this one will need a complete strip and inspection. Once you start looking at swapping to a four-stroke you are talking money, a second-hand Rotax 912 will set you back £5K-ish minimum and you’d be better off adding that to your initial buying budget and getting something in better nick. There are some bargains around in the budget price bracket, flyable and permitted Aeroncas, Jodels, Rans S6, Kitfoxes, Avids and the like at under £10K, some well under.
Whatever you go to see take an LAA Inspector to get a much better idea of what you might be taking on – you don’t want a ‘bargain’ that ends up taking you two years to get flying and takes every penny you can muster.
Please don’t be disillusioned, many of us have started with tuppence-halfpenny and a heap of enthusiasm, just do your homework and take a bit of time. There are plenty of members willing to help you. Post the area where you live and that will help get a few offers of help and advice. Call in at any local strip or airfield at the weekend and look out LAA members, and join the local Strut if there is one near you.
I want to see you and your aeroplane at the Rally this year, or maybe next. Good luck with your flying and bargain hunting.
Brian.

[jangiolini]

I completely agree with Brian! An Avid is a very nice aircraft but as a learner/beginners plane NO! It has adverse Yaw which will bite you very badly if you let it and has a few other little quirks! Would I get rid of mine? No I love it its fun it is cheap to own with the wing fold and a trailer cheap hangarage can be flown with doors open I have an Avid speedwing that originally had a Rotax 582 (stopped in flight once) fitted and I am currently fitting a Jabiru! I can tell you that the cost of engine swaps soon spiral out of control!
What model is it that you are looking at? what wing is on it and unless its under £4k it isnt a bargain. There are a few point to be aware of including the flaperon attachment points, seat truss for fractures due to hard landings state of the tubing in the fuselage also what state is the covering in!
John.

[Spitfire]

Hello John and Brian.

Firstly, thank you very, very much for taking the time to respond. It is actually a model A (not a B as I first thought), so of course is even less desireable. Don't know which wing size it is. It has a Rotax 503, which will need re-building. Having a 2 stroke combined with me being a novice / still learning makes me want to go for a 4 stroke for extra reliability, but this may be a problem (as I am told a 912 won't fit anyhow). Hence I guess costs may spiral up to t he level of something that I could get which is more suitable and already in permit etc.

Its a tough one as I really want a cheap hour builder whilst I build a Sherwood Ranger (not yet ordered it but will be doing this summer hopefully). Wing fold is high on my list, but not as high as safety. Opinions always seem to be divided on the Avids which makes it more difficult, with some saying that they are good to learn on providing you understand them and get good instruction, others saying steer clear even if experienced.

I think I will take a look at it (currently trying to arrange for a friendly LAA inspector to accompany me - the 2 LAA chaps I have contacted thus far have been helpful beyond measure), and see what deal I can get consindering what work and cost may be involved to re-commission it.

Thanks again guys for your sage advice.

Best wishes.
Gordon

p.s. I am based near Halifax, West Yorkshire, but will be flying from Rufforth (near York) or Barton in Manchester - bloody hilly and windy where I live in the pennines but the Mrs won't move to anywhere flat . I think I need to contact the North Western strut which meet near Manchester.

[Brian Hope]

Hi Gordon, delighted to hear that you are already getting some good support from fellow members.
Being a soft suvverna I'm never sure of the orientation and travelling distances of the towns oop narth but there is a new Strut that meets in York. They recently held their first meeting and 20+ members attended so it looks very promising. The guys organising it are David Allan (07973 765552) and Alan Kilbride on [email protected]. I know Alan, he flies a Jodel and is a very helpful kind of chap. Might be worth a look as well as the NW Strut. Rgds, Brian

Edited to say: Had a letter from Dave this morning to say the Strut, now named the Vale of York Strut, will meet on the last Wednesday of March at the Full Sutton Gliding Club at 7:30pm. Naturally they would be happy to see any interested members and friends.