Leburg Question

mb2 · Post by **mb2** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 10:09 am

I have acquired a VW powered Colibri with a Leburg Conversion and have a few questions;

1) How do you tell which is the A or B battery?
2) What are the recommended capacities for A and B batteries?
3) There is no Voltmeter or Ammeter fitted, is this correct?
4) The ICOM handheld is unusable when transmitting (OK receiving) due to interference when connected to the power from aircraft feed (Leburg alternator fitted) but is fine when running off it's own internal Icom battery.
5) Is the circuit design such that the battery will flatten if left in the hanger for a while. (Mags turned off obviously). Should I fit a battery isolation switch?
6) I have two LED's indicating that the Ignition is live, which go off when the engine starts. Is it normal to have a Buzzer as well to indicate alternator failure. The LED's are by my knees and out the normal sight line.

Coments please.

Mark Bodger

PB · Post by PB » Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:22 pm

Post deleted. Poster refuses to use real name.

mb2 · Post by **mb2** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:01 pm

Who is the PB Nazi deleting posts. My real name is at the bottom of the post. If you do not wish to allow Forum Members using anything other than real names, then change your system to force the information into the 'Posted By' field.
Anyway, I don't remember having to submit my Birth Certificate for it to be validated before I joined the Forum.

Post by **John Dean** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 9:36 pm

Mark,

I am the person who deleted the post by "PB". He refuses to use his full real name, as required by this forum, and unless he does so soon is very likely to have his posting privileges withdrawn.

Thank you for using your full name in your own posts.

mcfadyeanda · Post by **mcfadyeanda** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:27 pm

Mark,
What is the nature of the 'unusability' of the ICOM when transmitting?
Feedback (e.g. a loud squeal) or ignition interference?

Duncan.

mb2 · Post by **mb2** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:16 am

Duncan,

According to reports from others on frequency, it appears that someone has the PTT open but no attempt to speak is heard, not even noise. From within the aircraft, it is just 'static' type noise, or acts as normal but no transmission.

As soon as I pull the external power supply, and revert to the ICOM battery, all is fine.

Regards

Mark

G-AWMN · Post by **G-AWMN** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:31 pm

I have a Leburg sytem which I purchased at the end of last year for my Luton Minor rebuild. Probably one of the last sytems sold by Dave. So far this has not flown so can not speak from actual flying experiance but I do have a full set of instructions that I have scanned for my records that I could let you have if this will be of use. Please email if required.

The instructions call for a main battery of 7Ah miniumum and back up of 2.8Ah miniumum. The instructions recommend a volt meter be fitted which can be selected either A/B and that the battery voltage is checked prior to start up. A low voltage can cause damage to the electronic units so if low voltage detected do not attempt start. The instructions states that the ignition controllers will probably suffer perminant damage if supply voltage allowed to drop below 7 volts. Warning buzzers or horns are recommended in the instructions.

Both power supply sytems are connected through circuit breakers so when all switches and circuit breakers are off you should not be getting any battery drain. If you are, you either have a sytem not wired correctly or you batteries are in need of replacement.

As for which is A and which is B my guess is impossible to tell without chasing the wiring. Are the switches and circuit breakers not labeled?

Sorry can not help on the Radio question.

Stuart Penfold

Mike Mold · Post by **Mike Mold** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:58 pm

Hi Mark
If your EI system has been wired according to David's plans, the 7Ah batt should be the 'A' one and connected directly to the supply bus and thence via a CB/switch to the service bus. The smaller back-up batt (B) should be wired to the supply bus via a back-up diode and a separate CB/ switch. I installed a voltmeter with a 3 position switch, one side of the meter to gnd and the 3 position switch to 1) the suppy bus, 2) central off and 3) to the + side of the B battery. David recommended the Lascar EMV1200 digital voltmeter, available from Farnells http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/10308.pdf

This should enable you to (dis)connect the batts in turn to identify the swich & battery combination.
rgds, Mike

Mike Mold · Post by **Mike Mold** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:02 pm

And David's plans do include both ignition warning LEDs and buzzers. The latter leave you and anyone else close to the a/c in no doubt that your prop is live!

cardiffrob · Post by **cardiffrob** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 5:05 pm

I didn't have buzzers on my kit so I added a single buzzer to the A circuit. A seems to be the one designated as the main one so it has the bigger battery on my aeroplane. 7 and 2.8 ah "MINIMUM" rings a bell. Model aircraft shop.

I added a Westach voltmeter and a switch so that I can check each system momentarily before and after start, plus during flight. This ensures it has battery life before start plus shows if the battery is not being charged. PS don't run it if the battery is below about 8v or it will possibly throw a wobbler (can someone elaborate?)

Someone did mention to me about a 'smoothing gadget' to even out the pulses from the alternator. Maybe that is the problem with the icom?

mb2 · Post by **mb2** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:18 pm

Thanks for the info chaps.

I have kindly been sent a set of instruction which I will study and then relate the wiring diagram back to the aircraft. Interestingly both batteries are the same size (7Ah) so need to check the wiring to see which feeds what.

PB sent me a PM saying that starting on a low battery can cause damage to some components. I'd quite like to know some more detail and if there is procedure to test for damage?
I have ordered a Lascar EMV1200 digital voltmeter but need some buzzers. I found some in Maplins rated at 96Db, this sounds a tad too loud!

Regards

Mike Mold · Post by **Mike Mold** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:31 pm

The 73dB buzzers I used were plenty loud and came from RS but have now been superceded and a comparible alternative is suggested.
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/sear ... &x=12&y=14

G-AWMN · Post by **G-AWMN** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:38 pm

I have just noticed via another forum that Henry Mickleburgh has now got a website up and running. He has asked for the word to be passed about.

http://www.leburg.com

Stuart Penfold

Rob Swain · Post by **Rob Swain** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:22 pm

Apologies if this is repeating others.
My credentials : Sad plane obsessed tinkerer. Rebuilt VW engine for VP1 G-BAPP.
VW 1834cc, twin port heads with Leburg ignition and Leburg/Honda alternator system driving Chris Lodge prop. 'Plane does 85mph or so (canopy and turtledeck help) and climbs like a homesick angel for something being pulled around by a beetle engine!

mb2 wrote:1) How do you tell which is the A or B battery?

Switch everything off. Disconnect one battery. Throw both switches. The ignition system with the indicator that doesn't flash is the disconnected one.
Repeat for other battery, just to be sure that everything is working OK.

mb2 wrote:2) What are the recommended capacities for A and B batteries?

7Ah main and 2.8Ah backup from memory and other postings. The other notable thing about the batteries is Dave's instructions recommend changing the batteries every year. They are cheap enough, so I wouldn't argue with the man!

mb2 wrote:3) There is no Voltmeter or Ammeter fitted, is this correct?

People's reports of needing to fit volt meters is a new one on me, I have to admit - don't recall ever seeing any recommendation about this.
Dave's pilot notes that I have (from the man himself as a Word doc - anybody wanting them PM me an email address to send them to!) indicate that there is a low voltage and a high voltage warning built into the units. The normal beeps / flashes for clear prop warning are a single short blip every second. Low voltage is a half second beep, half second silence, half second beep etc. High voltage is 4 short blips per second.

mb2 wrote:4) The ICOM handheld is unusable when transmitting (OK receiving) due to interference when connected to the power from aircraft feed (Leburg alternator fitted) but is fine when running off it's own internal Icom battery.

Can't help on this one - the VP1 the ignition is fitted to uses an Icom hand held that is a bit carp but we are addressing this with a new antenna.

mb2 wrote:5) Is the circuit design such that the battery will flatten if left in the hanger for a while. (Mags turned off obviously). Should I fit a battery isolation switch?

Shouldn't do! When all breakers and switches are off we leave the VP1 for weeks on end and it's fine when we return.

mb2 wrote:6) I have two LED's indicating that the Ignition is live, which go off when the engine starts. Is it normal to have a Buzzer as well to indicate alternator failure. The LED's are by my knees and out the normal sight line.

Dave's plans include sounders and LEDs as a definite requirement on both systems. I used some Piezo sounders on the VP1 installation screwed to the engine side of the firewall. I think they either came from maplin or farnell. They are VERY loud, highish pitched, small, light and sound suitably urgent in use. Additionally they have a VERY low power consumption, so they will sound even if the batteries are tired.
Additionally I suggest you move the warning LEDs - they are your main indication of problems in flight so should be in your face - in normal flight with the engine running normally they are off so they are not in the least bit distracting. If they flash then, believe me, you want the distraction!

Quick note to CardiffRob - I respectfully suggest you put sounders on both systems - the engine running on just the B system is just as capable of starting the engine, dicing you up and generally ruining your day as A or both together. I've started G-BAPP on just A, just B and both before now - it doesn't care - just pull it through TDC and off it goes!

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