Paint application

adi · Post by **adi** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 5:41 pm

Looking into options for painting Ceconite/Randolph system.

Have little experience in this area and wanted opinions on traditional compressor vs. HVLP?

Ian Melville · Post by **Ian Melville** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 6:58 pm

This link outlines the why HVLP
http://epa.gov/dfe/pubs/auto/spraygun_s ... uccess.pdf

mike newall · Post by **mike newall** » Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:36 pm

Used both - if you don't have need for compressed air, use HVLP such as Titan turbine HVLP. A little noisy but a great unit, completely self contained and does a good job. Used one to lay all the build coats on our Christen Eagle before the top coat of 2 pack.

If you have air, stick with an air fed HVLP, they work at a lower pressure, use less paint, create less overspray and are very simple to get the hang of.

Got a HVLP gravity gun from Machine Mart, did all the tail surfaces on my mate's Tiger Moth in butyrate with that gun.

If you are after some good advice re paint, get in touch with Dave Almey at Skycraft - I've used his dopes quite a bit and they all go on very well indeed.

If you need colour matching and it is a really strong colour, Ray at Light Aero is your man - he organised the colour match for the Moth in the original yellow. Once on, you could not tell the two dopes apart.

As we come into winter, make sure you are spraying in a dry environment or you will get problems with blushing. A cheap dehumidifier works well - run it overnight in the shop to bring the humidity down prior to spraying.

Rob Swain · Post by **Rob Swain** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:27 am

mike newall wrote:As we come into winter, make sure you are spraying in a dry environment or you will get problems with blushing. A cheap dehumidifier works well - run it overnight in the shop to bring the humidity down prior to spraying.

I've personally found that spraying in winter is easier than other times of the year. Pick a dry, cold, bright day as the ambient humidity is very low. Then heat the shop properly with electric heaters (not gas ones - they give off water vapour). Spray as required. I've never had problems with bloom.

Orange peel, on the other hand...

gasax · Post by **gasax** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:01 pm

I've used Ceconite and Polyfiber. Unless you have to use Ceconite I would suggest you go down the Polyfiber route - a much more 'forgiving' system which should also give a better life.

HVLP is definitely the way to go for spraying - guns are fairly cheap and readily available.

matherp · Post by **matherp** » Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:10 am

Remember if you are using Ranthane you need forced air breathing - this stuff is really dangerous, a single exposure to isocynate has been shown to cause irreversible asthma.

I've decided to stay away from the older systems because of this and am going to use Stewart Systems which is water based all the way through.

best regards

Peter

gdbird · Post by **gdbird** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:49 pm

Can anyone advise on painting a Europa, It must be white, does it need 2 part paint on the GRP? I have some skills and experience, could I spray it myself and if so what paint and from where?
How can I find Simon Collins to see how he is getting on with the Combicolour on his MCR?

If best to get it done, any suggestions where it wont cost limbs?
Someone recommended a glider place near Husbands Bosworth.

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:40 pm

Hi Graeme, PM sent.

No reason why you shouldn't paint your Europa yourself. have a word with your local paint factor about etch primers suitable for composite materials. Trick is not to put too much paint on as it will add weight. Whereas with a car you can put on more paint if you aren't satisfied with the finish, with an aeroplane you must try to get that decent finish with the minimal number of coats.
There's a place in E Sussex where the SportCruiser guys go and he charges around £2500, which is very reasonable. Maybe more for a Europa if additional preparation required.

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:41 pm

Sent twice in error

gdbird · Post by **gdbird** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:04 pm

Umm, not sure 'humble opinions' go with seeking to 'look a million dollars on the ramp' but I take your point. I am more interested in flying the thing from the empty paddock. The quote I had was around 4K from elsewhere and surely just spraying correctly should get a pretty good finish, I would be interested to learn on the way and there are advantages to spraying as you go. Murrays site looks good though and if the price was reasonable I would be tempted. I would be quite interested in getting someone who could spray cars for instance to come and teach me on the job.

Thanks

Ian Melville · Post by **Ian Melville** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:14 pm

There are car sprayers around who will do aircarft. Fees are a lot less, but you will have to get the airframe stripped down ready to spray.
You do have to drum the light-weight finish mantra into them.

Adrian Hatton · Post by **Adrian Hatton** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:55 pm

If it is of any interest, I painted my own Twister (and do this sort of work for a living) - it took about 150hrs labour and in region of £600 plus VAT for materials (dont know exactly as I keep loads of consumable in stock which were not strictly booked out to the job) - and that was just to prime and paint the external airframe 2K white and the cockpit area grey - all the cutting back to 1500grit and compounding was extra to that figure!!
I have since spent another week tidying up and painting the wing root ribs and other less visible bits of the aircraft.

Anyone worth their salt will want IRO £30+/hr if they are doing the job commercially, which may sound a lot but don't forget they will have things like product liability insurance, spray booth costs etc. etc. to cover.

I would also suggest that your chosen man should be skilled at GRP work (one over-enthusuatic bit of sanding could well prove much more costly than any saving ...).

So, a quote of £4k to paint a Europa from the finshed kit state to ready to fly would seem very reasonable to me.

Doing it yourself could be very rewarding and educational to boot - assuming you have a decent place to work and access to a good compressor and spray guns then go on, have a go... you can always cut back anything you are not happy with and re-do it if necessary - the materials are the least of the cost.

Have fun.

gdbird · Post by **gdbird** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:11 pm

Adrian, thats very helpful indeed, half of this is education. I must admit I am amazed that it takes so long once all the preparation work is done and its in bits. I could understand it with a metal plane that has to be stripped and primed.
Can you be more explicit about the time?
Also the cost of the paint £600!
Whats compounding?

What about Mr Collins (LAA article) that rollered his for £100, do you have a view on that?

As in all things with Aviation - they are expensive but nobody working in spraying or any other aspect is rolling around in cash.

Adrian Hatton · Post by **Adrian Hatton** » Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:51 pm

The paint didn't cost £600 - but there is lots more to consider than just paint.

Decent 2K Paint will be about half to 2/3rds of that cost, the rest being fillers, abrasives, primers, hardener, thinners, gunwash, masking materials, etc. etc. the list goes on....

If you are using a commercial painter many of these items would probably be included in the 'fee' rather than individually itemised.

I understand that in the USA, the tax office accepts that homebuilding aircraft is an 'educational activity' and allows certain tax concessions against the cost of the activity.
Now wouldn't that be nice....

Light Aircraft Association

Paint application

Paint application

Painting a Europa

painting