approval of a new type

john pearce · Post by **john pearce** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:10 pm

anyone been through the process recently ?
The Pitts Model 12 is one of the newest I believe, wondered how painfull the process is ?
Thunder Mustang ...........

Ian Melville · Post by **Ian Melville** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:11 pm

John
I am going through the process at the moment and the short answer is that it depends......

Slightly longer is that it depends on how helpful the designer is, how much structural analasys and or load testing has beem done, and if it conforms to CS-VLA.

I would get the plans and as much of the above that you can, then have a chat to LAA engineering (FD)

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:07 pm

Hi John, if it's a Thunder Mustang you want to build then it's over the weight and power limitations of an LAA aircraft. You would have to work directly with the CAA to get it approved for a CAA Permit to Fly.

john pearce · Post by **john pearce** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:39 am

Thanks Brian - can you just remind me what the power and weight limitations are ?

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 1:01 pm

Hi John, current limits are 180hp and 2006lbs but at the CAA's discretion we can go to 260hp and 2500lbs.
Take a look at Technical Leaflet TL 1.07 for more info. You can find it by clicking Engineering on the LAA home page, then Technical Leaflets which is one of the larger options in red.

Ian Melville · Post by **Ian Melville** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:14 pm

Thanks Brian I had been looking for that info.
The Mk26B spitfire seems to be LAA approved, the lowest power option is 260hp

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:37 pm

Hi Ian, I believe only the early model with the 8 cylinder Jabiru engine (180hp) is currently approved and work is in hand on the slightly larger Mk26B which has the 260hp V6 Isuzu conversion. There's also a 450hp V8 option now but I think only the V6 option is currently being pursued for UK builds.

Ian Melville · Post by **Ian Melville** » Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:08 am

Hi Brian, That is what I thought. IIRC there are two 26B under construction in the UK, one of which is on hold. The approved aircraft list shows the 26 and 26B as approved by the LAA on the same line? I guess an error in the list, they should have separate lines(when both approved, not that you can get a mk26 now). TADS only refer to the mk26, this could cause confusion as the mk26B should not have a TADS until approved.

Nigel Hitchman · Post by **Nigel Hitchman** » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:12 pm

There is a Stewart S-51 in the UK, which may be flying, or just going thru the final CAA approval. It was brought into the country complete I believe and is going to have a CAA permit. I dont know if this was previously applied for as a possible LAA aircraft or not.
Similarly Glasiar IIIs are all on CAA permits. However, if a Soko Krajuk can be put on an LAA permit (see other thread) I wonder why a Thunder Mustang couldnt?

bencmaster · Post by **bencmaster** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:59 am

Hello

I am going through the process with my almost complete T51 Mustang. This is a heavier built beast than the 912 version and has the 180hp Suzuki V6. The LAA seem to be right there on this, for which I am extreemly grateful.

It's obviously a gamble as there are plenty of potential hurdles.

I'd be happy to talk to anyone interested.

Ben Chester-Master

ian herdis · Post by **ian herdis** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:05 pm

It is clear that what is required is a UK experimental category just as many other EU countries have.

What is the LAA position on this, are we actively persuing this option?

It is clear that the members want more freedom to build and operate aircraft without the restrictions we curently have.

Obviously with freedom comes responsibility.

Ian Herdis
Building Sportsman 2+2

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 1:56 pm

Hi Ian, I quote from Roger's Chairman's Chat in the Feb issue of Light Aviation (which is in the post and should be with members imminently):

'We are also looking as the possibility of an “experimental” approach to amateur build – as in Canada and Australia - which though in the early stages of germination could be a significant move.'

I'm not sure how many EU countries do have an experimental type category, not many I think, particularly with non microlight types but I am sure many would see it as a step in the right direction. There will though, always be a significant number of potential aircraft builders who would want to know that their chosen design had been shown to meet the requirements of a recognised design code.
Nigel compares the Thunder Mustang with the Soko Krajuk and ask why one and not the other. I think the very high speeds of some of the high power/weight kitplanes is one reason. The aerodynamics of these machines with potential flutter issues, plus highish stall speeds etc., add safety concerns and technical challenges far outside of the LAA 'norm'.

ian herdis · Post by **ian herdis** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 5:11 pm

Hi, Brian

Thanks for that bit of info, a positive step in the right direction.

Look forward to the next mag as always, wow is that another month went by it only seems like a couple of weeks ago I was enjoying the last good read, you must have got your publishing woes sorted out quickly, well done!!

Ian

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:25 pm

Hi Brian, Looking forward to reading the mag as usual.
Perhaps I should wait but I assume that from Roger's Chairman's Chat
'We are also looking as the possibility of an “experimental” approach to amateur build – as in Canada and Australia - which though in the early stages of germination could be a significant move.' means we are building on the what I think was a RAeC report on an experimental category.

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:57 pm

Hi Roger, If you mean the RAeS idea then no not really. The RAeS experimental category would be for prototyping new designs. At the moment it is difficult for a designer to make small changes and just go test them (changes have to be approved for test flying), thus holding up a potential new design going into production. It is not intended for experimental aircraft in the sense of the aircraft you or I might want to build, though of course this initiative does have LAA support.
What we are talking about here is an experimental category for building existing designs that we might today be approving for PtF.
Thanks to you and Ian for the kind comments re the magazine.