How much do I have to pay for a permit renewal
How much do I have to pay for and inspection renewal
I am still unsure how much a LAA engineer will charge me to come and advise me on my plane for repairs and permit renewal and his level of competence ?
how much do I have to pay for 1 modification
How much do I have to pay for a upgrade
How much do I have to pay for a change of ownership
How much do I have to pay for a reg change
How much do I have to pay for parts sales above £100
How much do I have to pay for a document change
How much do I have to pay for ............
the list goes on and on and on how many members ? Its got to be less each year ! sooner or later ?
So how much till we can't afford to fly ? look at GA aircraft 30% down in values ! How long till there are no light aircraft ? flying apart from Museums ? I don't want to be and exhibit.
How much !
Moderators: John Dean, Moderator
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nigel henry
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:35 pm
- Location: oxford
- Contact:
How much !
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Brian Hope
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:28 pm
- Location: Sheerness Kent
How much to pay the rates?
How much to pay the mortgage?
How much to fill the car with fuel?
How much to pay the food bill at the supermarket?
How much to pay for gas and electricity?
How much to pay for some new clothes for the kids?
You know Nigel, our staff, our inspectors, CAA staff etc all need to pay to live just the same as the rest of us and where do you think their wages are going to come from if we don't charge our members for the services we provide?
As it happens, LAA prices have been held for 2011 and we try hard to recruit more members to spread the costs farther to keep it affordable for everybody, and I don't think we do a bad job of that. We also need to make a surplus to feed back into improving services - like the new website you want us to invest in.
Actually the amount of LAA costs involved in an annual flying budget are quite small. Go fill a Van's RV with Avgas and the bill will come to about the same as your LAA membership and annual Permit cost - yes, that's a full year’s flying from LAA for just one fill up! You can hardly accuse us of ripping anybody off.
Complacent we are not, we know as well as anybody that it is tough out there and some of our members are finding it hard to keep flying, but LAA remains the answer to keeping flying affordable, it is not the cause of the financial woes some of us are unfortunately caught up in.
How much to pay the mortgage?
How much to fill the car with fuel?
How much to pay the food bill at the supermarket?
How much to pay for gas and electricity?
How much to pay for some new clothes for the kids?
You know Nigel, our staff, our inspectors, CAA staff etc all need to pay to live just the same as the rest of us and where do you think their wages are going to come from if we don't charge our members for the services we provide?
As it happens, LAA prices have been held for 2011 and we try hard to recruit more members to spread the costs farther to keep it affordable for everybody, and I don't think we do a bad job of that. We also need to make a surplus to feed back into improving services - like the new website you want us to invest in.
Actually the amount of LAA costs involved in an annual flying budget are quite small. Go fill a Van's RV with Avgas and the bill will come to about the same as your LAA membership and annual Permit cost - yes, that's a full year’s flying from LAA for just one fill up! You can hardly accuse us of ripping anybody off.
Complacent we are not, we know as well as anybody that it is tough out there and some of our members are finding it hard to keep flying, but LAA remains the answer to keeping flying affordable, it is not the cause of the financial woes some of us are unfortunately caught up in.
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Sandy Hutton LAA372
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:30 pm
Nigel, maybe I've read you wrong but when you make a statement about the Inspectors level of competence I'm afraid I have to take issue with you there.
Inspectors go through a selection process and their level of competence is gauged at interview by the Chief Inspector who allocates a list of Inspection Approvals on a card. You can ask to see your Inspectors card at any time he visits.
As for your own competence? Did you have a hand in the builds of the Europa or the Longeze? No? Well you are the one who has to prove competence to the Inspector before he will be satisfied and sign off the repairs.
Good luck with getting both "planes" (it's an Aeroplane Bader) back into the air.
Inspectors go through a selection process and their level of competence is gauged at interview by the Chief Inspector who allocates a list of Inspection Approvals on a card. You can ask to see your Inspectors card at any time he visits.
As for your own competence? Did you have a hand in the builds of the Europa or the Longeze? No? Well you are the one who has to prove competence to the Inspector before he will be satisfied and sign off the repairs.
Good luck with getting both "planes" (it's an Aeroplane Bader) back into the air.
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rans6andrew
- Posts: 63
- Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:39 pm
the permit renewal, first permit and mod application fees are in the latest mag.
Inspector charges are by personal negotiation with your inspector, his or her competences are listed on the LAA website. I have just finished building my second aircraft, my inspector asked for just £15 per hour including his travel time. He lives very close to me. For paperwork stuff I take it to him so I don't pay travel time on it. Very reasonable.
change of ownership is a CAA cost, £60 I think. A change of registration (personal plate!) is £160.
Part sales are free on AFORS.
If you can't afford what you have, go down market, LAA types can be very economical to run.
Just waiting for my first permit.
Rans6...
Inspector charges are by personal negotiation with your inspector, his or her competences are listed on the LAA website. I have just finished building my second aircraft, my inspector asked for just £15 per hour including his travel time. He lives very close to me. For paperwork stuff I take it to him so I don't pay travel time on it. Very reasonable.
change of ownership is a CAA cost, £60 I think. A change of registration (personal plate!) is £160.
Part sales are free on AFORS.
If you can't afford what you have, go down market, LAA types can be very economical to run.
Just waiting for my first permit.
Rans6...
Andrew Cattell
Rans S6 Microlight.
Rans S6 Microlight.
Nigel,
I have been watching your recent posts on this forum with interest. You seem to have a negative attitude towards the LAA. Why don't you get along to a local strut and talk to some members. You will get answers to most of the LAA questions from people who know and use the system. They will also be able to advise on local inspectors and you might also get to chat to these same inspectors and be able to make your own mind up to their competence. You might even get advised which of the above questions you should ask the LAA and which should be directed at the CAA.
I guess with all those projects on the go, you have no time to actualy get out and talk to LAA members!
Stuart Penfold
I have been watching your recent posts on this forum with interest. You seem to have a negative attitude towards the LAA. Why don't you get along to a local strut and talk to some members. You will get answers to most of the LAA questions from people who know and use the system. They will also be able to advise on local inspectors and you might also get to chat to these same inspectors and be able to make your own mind up to their competence. You might even get advised which of the above questions you should ask the LAA and which should be directed at the CAA.
I guess with all those projects on the go, you have no time to actualy get out and talk to LAA members!
Stuart Penfold
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Gerry Holland
- Posts: 149
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:00 am
- Location: White Ox Mead, Bath, Somerset
Nigel Hi.
Sell the Europa and Long-Eze and choose a CAA Type. It's that easy if you don't like LAA regulation. With prices 30% down you're on a winner!
The help and guidance building an Aircraft given by Inspectors far outweighs the small costs of their visit. Yes I have built one and refurbished two others.
I dont think you built the Europa you are working on so take as much advice as you can get to ensure it is safe and remains safe.
I'm so glad we have found the cause of our financial ailments as a country, the bloody LAA! I will forward on your observations around cost escalation to the Banking Industry spokeswoman.
Regards
Gerry
You can land at my Strip FREE! and you'll get Coffee and Doughnut...FREE.
Worth hurrying up with the Europa!!!
Sell the Europa and Long-Eze and choose a CAA Type. It's that easy if you don't like LAA regulation. With prices 30% down you're on a winner!
The help and guidance building an Aircraft given by Inspectors far outweighs the small costs of their visit. Yes I have built one and refurbished two others.
I dont think you built the Europa you are working on so take as much advice as you can get to ensure it is safe and remains safe.
I'm so glad we have found the cause of our financial ailments as a country, the bloody LAA! I will forward on your observations around cost escalation to the Banking Industry spokeswoman.
Regards
Gerry
You can land at my Strip FREE! and you'll get Coffee and Doughnut...FREE.
Worth hurrying up with the Europa!!!
028138
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Bill McCarthy
- Posts: 488
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:06 pm
- Location: Caithness
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Bill Scott
- Posts: 137
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:25 pm
Nigel,
Stop whining and find a cheaper hobby.
On a slightly more serious note, nobody has ever said flying is cheap: just that the LAA permit system makes it more affordable.
To make it more affordable still, get some friends together (up to 20 to keep it legal) and form a syndicate.
As regards officialdom and big business trying to squeeze us out, it makes me smile every time I go flying that I'm doing something that the 'faceless ones' wish I wouldn't/couldn't.
Stop whining and find a cheaper hobby.
On a slightly more serious note, nobody has ever said flying is cheap: just that the LAA permit system makes it more affordable.
To make it more affordable still, get some friends together (up to 20 to keep it legal) and form a syndicate.
As regards officialdom and big business trying to squeeze us out, it makes me smile every time I go flying that I'm doing something that the 'faceless ones' wish I wouldn't/couldn't.
Rob Swain
If the good Lord had intended man to fly, He would have given him more money.
If the good Lord had intended man to fly, He would have given him more money.
Almost all the answers to your questions are on the web site, but that would require 2 min of effort. I think you are right, GA aircraft prices are down 30% for C of A kit, but some permit aircraft have gone up in value. I switched from an AA5B C of A to an MCR and have saved around £40k over 5 years. If you want to go it alone go SSDR which requires no LAA oversight but does require you to do it all on your own.
Rod1
Rod1
021864
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nigel henry
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:35 pm
- Location: oxford
- Contact:
sorry but
I don't think I have got it wrong
The LAA offers a great service. Perhaps the best in the world considering the amount of red tape in the UK! But perhaps clarity of charges to it's members is important in all area's as even I struggle to understand what an engineer charges for a visit.
I have at last found the Engineer who I consider to be suitable to my type of Aircraft and is qualified to the highest standard and pleased with his level of advice and complacence.
I'm sorry guys I don't think I have been rude nor would I! I think the effort made by the LAA is great but asking how much an Inspector charges is a grey area and an important cost for him and I.
All the other charges some are impossible to quantify for a change of paperwork!
An Advert above £100 ! should be changed so more use the site. Look at the forums and tell me they are busy then look at [my example] AFORS?
The LAA should be a one stop shop.
As an accountant friend tells me, Ink on paper and progress is made by debate.
Whine no! Hobby yes since the age of 18 With respect to my other interests and hobbies I was asked in the membership area and asked I answered. Its not how much! It's budgets e.g mine, as like most who fly.
LAA aircraft, it is perhaps a less expensive option. So I can afford to fly and want to keep it that way,an expensive surprise means I have less to spend or I have to change options. I have to say It's not about filling the plane up, more a table of costs all in the same place. and a web site that is simple to use. Nigel
The LAA offers a great service. Perhaps the best in the world considering the amount of red tape in the UK! But perhaps clarity of charges to it's members is important in all area's as even I struggle to understand what an engineer charges for a visit.
I have at last found the Engineer who I consider to be suitable to my type of Aircraft and is qualified to the highest standard and pleased with his level of advice and complacence.
I'm sorry guys I don't think I have been rude nor would I! I think the effort made by the LAA is great but asking how much an Inspector charges is a grey area and an important cost for him and I.
All the other charges some are impossible to quantify for a change of paperwork!
An Advert above £100 ! should be changed so more use the site. Look at the forums and tell me they are busy then look at [my example] AFORS?
The LAA should be a one stop shop.
As an accountant friend tells me, Ink on paper and progress is made by debate.
Whine no! Hobby yes since the age of 18 With respect to my other interests and hobbies I was asked in the membership area and asked I answered. Its not how much! It's budgets e.g mine, as like most who fly.
LAA aircraft, it is perhaps a less expensive option. So I can afford to fly and want to keep it that way,an expensive surprise means I have less to spend or I have to change options. I have to say It's not about filling the plane up, more a table of costs all in the same place. and a web site that is simple to use. Nigel
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Sandy Hutton LAA372
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 10:30 pm
Hi Nigel and thanks for the tongue in cheek apology referring to your Inspectors level of complacency and I hope he appreciates your version of humour. An Inspectors fee or other charges are between the individual Aircraft Owner and that Inspector, so you need to negotiate that yourself, which you appear to have done. However, and for the benefit of others, some Inspectors will charge a Commercial rate and another might even do it for tea and biscuits. For my own part, I've been told I'm charging too little (That was from a very busy Inspector, thanks mate) but I'm not out to make a massive profit from the LAA as it's a hobby to me these days, though I may get busier when I retire.
I know there are some Inspectors who won't go further than their own County Line (I think it was Welshman who had some trouble getting someone) but I'm happy to travel. From home right across the river from Scone, my "Patch" takes me to Oban, North Berwick, Strathaven (I'm going there tomorrow) and it's Aberdeen 1st July and The Shetland Islands the following day.
So you see Nigel, some of us are willing to bend over backwards to keep you flying but you also have to convince us that your workmanship is up to scratch, therefore I do hope you're going to take an active part in phixing your own Aircraft.
Cheers and beers
I know there are some Inspectors who won't go further than their own County Line (I think it was Welshman who had some trouble getting someone) but I'm happy to travel. From home right across the river from Scone, my "Patch" takes me to Oban, North Berwick, Strathaven (I'm going there tomorrow) and it's Aberdeen 1st July and The Shetland Islands the following day.
So you see Nigel, some of us are willing to bend over backwards to keep you flying but you also have to convince us that your workmanship is up to scratch, therefore I do hope you're going to take an active part in phixing your own Aircraft.
Cheers and beers
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nigel henry
- Posts: 29
- Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:35 pm
- Location: oxford
- Contact:
reply ish
This is about the LAA's areas where it could be making money by traffic not charging the members till no members or fewer! This is a more affordable flying and our hands on! So change adverts change costs make is more transparent for everybody, Tea and Biscuits is great but ..... is it safe? Can I rely on a biscuit 50ft above the ground? Yes I am hands on as it's my life and a friends/family..... but needed a great inspector to help keep me safe. Yes I do post this with warped humor as well as my life I think most pilots /builders repairers do....... otherwise you would not fly! As for Oban It's kind of my home x Say Hi to our old family grocers buisness/shop and the house my Farther designed built. who was also x Lancaster crew radio opp/gunner. filled rearmed lysanders and sat in on intelligence through the War and after. Sunderlands in Singapore and communications in Aden to paperwork in ..... was his life's work. till he retired.Sandy Hutton LAA372 wrote:Hi Nigel and thanks for the tongue in cheek apology referring to your Inspectors level of complacency and I hope he appreciates your version of humour. An Inspectors fee or other charges are between the individual Aircraft Owner and that Inspector, so you need to negotiate that yourself, which you appear to have done. However, and for the benefit of others, some Inspectors will charge a Commercial rate and another might even do it for tea and biscuits. For my own part, I've been told I'm charging too little (That was from a very busy Inspector, thanks mate) but I'm not out to make a massive profit from the LAA as it's a hobby to me these days, though I may get busier when I retire.
I know there are some Inspectors who won't go further than their own County Line (I think it was Welshman who had some trouble getting someone) but I'm happy to travel. From home right across the river from Scone, my "Patch" takes me to Oban, North Berwick, Strathaven (I'm going there tomorrow) and it's Aberdeen 1st July and The Shetland Islands the following day.
So you see Nigel, some of us are willing to bend over backwards to keep you flying but you also have to convince us that your workmanship is up to scratch, therefore I do hope you're going to take an active part in phixing your own Aircraft.
Cheers and beers
030147
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Ian Melville
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:21 pm
I'm sure the "tea and biscuit " inspectors will charge you a large wad, if that makes you feel saferTea and Biscuits is great but ..... is it safe? Can I rely on a biscuit 50ft above the ground? Yes I am hands on as it's my life and a friends/family..... but needed a great inspector to help keep me safe.
