Small Engines Competition.

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Bill McCarthy
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Small Engines Competition.

Post by Bill McCarthy » Mon Apr 02, 2012 6:53 pm

Anyone heard anything on the grapevine of any serious contenders for the above challenge set in place by our association.

Brian Hope
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Post by Brian Hope » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:20 pm

Hi Bill, response has been disappointingly quiet. I'd like to think there are a few experimenters out there toiling away but we haven't heard much at all.

Tom Sheppard
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Post by Tom Sheppard » Tue Apr 03, 2012 6:55 am

Ford's new 1Litre motor is tiny and frugal. a three cylinder turbo Diesel, it develops 100HP. Derated to, say 75, I wonder what it weighs?
The whole car costs less than a Rotax.

But consider the noise test and gaining approval, particularly for the electronics which most people don't trust (mistakenly) in their cars. The amount of time and money spent constructing an engine that will make your asset unsaleable versus the price of a Rotax.
That is why the idea is unfortunately a non starter.

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mikehallam
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Post by mikehallam » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:15 am

I'd not heard of it but Google helped. It's claimed thus, see last para (ex Wikipedia).

The more powerful engine's block is CI and it's said to fit on an A4 size plan, but the photo - not allowed here - shows a very tall unit, which is mostly of course all to one side of the crankshaft. So potentially heavy (?) & dimensionally difficult to fit into a two seat conventional tractor a/c.
On the other hand the description might indicate the smaller powered version has a lighter (Ali ?) block.

Putting on a mechanically secure propeller reduction drive will add cost, mass, size and engineering time.

It has a 'Timing belt' curious, as it runs in oil, so I'd hope they mean 'chain', otherwise a No-No.

As described its power curve is praised for its flat torque - perhaps the valve operation profile as well as the electronics would need attention for an a/c where prop demand rises at the third power of rpm.

mike hallam.


[color=darkblue]Production is to start in April 2012. The 1.0 comes initially in two versions: 74 kW (101 PS) and 88 to 92 kW (120 to 125 PS). The more powerful version delivers a maximum of 170 N·m (125 lb·ft) from 1,300–4,500 rpm and 200 N·m (148 lb·ft) on overboost, which makes for a broad torque curve when compared to on-road diesel engines. The engine block is cast iron instead of aluminium for up to 50% faster warm-up.[10][11] Due to natural vibrations of a 3-cylinder design, the flywheel has been deliberately unbalanced to ensure smooth running, without the use of energy sapping balancer shafts. The engine also features an internal timing belt, bathed in the engine oil, for long life and greater efficiency. The exhaust manifold is cast into the cylinder head, reducing warm up times and therefore further aiding efficiency. All this is packaged in an engine block the size of an A4 sheet of paper. [12] The engines are produced in Köln, Germany[/color]

Ian Melville
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Post by Ian Melville » Tue Apr 03, 2012 12:50 pm

The problem with this competition, and to a lesser degree the SSDR one, is that to make it available to others, you must have some idea of what you are doing, perhaps it is your profession (or a side-line of).

The days of being able to pick up some bits at the scrapyard and tinker away in the garage have long gone.

On top of the design skills you need to have a machine workshop (or access to one at a fair cost). Then for engine you will need a auto sparky/computer expert to do all the electrickery.

Regarding the Ford engine, if the unbalanced flywheel is required to offset the 3 cylinders, how do you manage that with a prop replacing the flywheel, Single blade or chop one off a three blade prop? Or just keep the flywheel. IIRC there is someone on one of UK flying forums who knows details about this engine. How does one get hold of one to play with?

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ColinC
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Post by ColinC » Tue Apr 03, 2012 10:24 pm

It is hard for most people with the necessary skills to get time to think about this when we are digging our way through a recession.

That's a real shame, but if you look around there are some engines being developed based on the Toyota Aygo (aka Citroen/Peugeot) 3-Cylinder engine such as Ecoyota that offer inspiration.

This is interesting: http://aviongazaile44.wifeo.com/motorisation.php
018841
Colin Cheese

Nick Allen
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Post by Nick Allen » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:57 pm

The new Ford engine might sit on an A4 sheet, but it's not correspondingly miniature in the vertical dimension! Nor is it especially light (as far as I could ascertain).
The new Fiat Twin Air engine might be an interesting starting point...

Rob Swain
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Post by Rob Swain » Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:45 pm

Anyone tinkering with bike engines?

They seem popular elsewhere in the world. The only one I know of that is used here in the UK is a BMW flat twin, but I've heard conflicting reports with regard to the level of success encountered.
Rob Swain
If the good Lord had intended man to fly, He would have given him more money.

Tom Sheppard
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Post by Tom Sheppard » Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:01 pm

Bike engines tend to be high revving and comparatively short on torque these days. They don't seem to last long either. You would need to create a crankcase without the integral clutch and gearbox so it all looks too much like hard work. The BMW engine is reliable but heavy due to its massive crank although a 40 HP flat twin would be ideal for me. Half a D-motor would probably work but with the market, even in microlights heading resolutely towards 100HP/100KT airframes, it would seem to be unlikely that anybody is going to bother, alas.

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Post by Nick Allen » Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:23 pm

You don't hear much this side of the Channel about 2CV/Visa engine conversions. There's a pretty little German motorglider, the ULF-2 (http://www.eel.de/english/ulf-2_description.htm#), the plans for which include a Visa conversion. (Don't know what the engine weighs though.)

Bill McCarthy
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Post by Bill McCarthy » Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:54 pm

I think one of the development Lucioles used a 2CV engine. Of the five that were used to monitor performance there were 2 with Briggs and Stratton, 2 with Hoinda V twin and the one with the 2 CV. It would appear that the Briggs was the favourite.

Nick Allen
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Post by Nick Allen » Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:05 pm

Yes, now you mention it I think that the Citroen option was a fair bit heavier than the B&S (...just found the article: 17kg heavier). However, there appears to be a healthy modifying community, and 40 kg/40hp has been mentioned. This would pitch it into half-VW territory, would it not?

Hmm, as I'm currently in Italy, I'm now wondering what the weights/powers of the original Fiat 500 engine are. Abarth-powered microlight, anyone?

Ian Melville
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Post by Ian Melville » Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:24 pm

I just had a flash back and remembered there was a Citroen Visa aero engine conversion. Allegedy a better option than the 2CV. May also be easier to find in the UK.

http://www.lightsportaircraftpilot.com/ ... index.html

Brian Hope
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Post by Brian Hope » Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:02 am

I believe the RSA used to sell plans for a 2CV/Visa conversion.

Mick Bevan
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Post by Mick Bevan » Sat Apr 07, 2012 9:03 pm

Hi all,
The people at Valley Engineering are touting a 40 hp 2 cyl industrial unit and there are supposed to be several individual Harley-Davidson units on US ultralights out there. Has anyone looked at the Subaru flat-four diesel?

regards
Mick

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