What is a good workshop?

[traumahawk1973]

Hi all
Firstly an introduction.
I'm a 38 year old chap, CPL with FI rating, working as a Firefighter, and I'm looking to learn some new skills.
Just joined the LAA, and I am going to be building a MiniMax 1600R.
My question for the forum is that I have an issue with regard to a suitable space to build my project. I have various options:

16' x 8' shed, in very good condition, but no electrical power to it, ie no heat or light, and it is 40 metres from the house....
May be possible to run an extension reel, as I do for the lawn mower, but not ideal? All it would be running is a small strip light and occasionally a band saw or disc sander. (this is looking to be the best option).

Attic room, reached via step ladder, warm, dry, well lit, approx 12' x 13'

Possibility of erecting a shed in the rear yard area, with power and light, but it could only be approx 12 x 6....so narrow

Could rent a workshop/single garage, but obviously would not be so close to the house.

I'm building a small aircraft to be used for local area pottering, and I'm not looking to finish yesterday, I aim to start on the fin/rudder, and gain experience before moving on to other parts of the airframe, so initially I don't need too much space, but I would like to be able to erect a decent work bench.

So there we are, thinking out loud, and looking for advice from the forum members. Has anyone else built in a small space? How did you manage?
I'm not rushing into anything, but I would like to make a start.

Any advice gratefully received!

[Ian Melville]

Hi traumahawk1973,
Welcome to the forum.
None of the spaces you mention are ideal. The best suggestion would be to make the small assemblies in the attic, and the larger ones in the existing shed during the summer. I would be concerned about the ladder though, OK for the odd trip to the loft, but not on a daily basis.

MiniMax recommend a minimum of 4 foot by 14 foot bench which in a UK spec single garage, about the same size as your shed is not going to leave much space. Their suggestion is two 4x8 benches. I am not convinced that what they describe on the plan will stay flat for long. a Temp of 75 degrees F is also required. Have a Google for EAA standard workbench, from Chapter 1000, and adapt to your requirements. Perhaps make three (15 foot total)

Though not building a MiniMax, my 12 by 3 bench in a single garage was nothing but trouble. By the time I added a band saw, drill and other bits around it, there was too little space to move around without hassle. It is in the process of being modified to a 4x2 and 8x2, the minimum I can get away with. If I do need wider I will lay 4 foot wide ply or MDF on top. Wish I had seen the EAA one before I started

If you do rent space you may find it requires more effort to put in the building hours, and of course the additional cost. Though the latter may be a good incentive to get cracking. Can you replace the existing shed with a larger insulated one?

Cheers

[Richard Fitzpatrick]

What I have done in the past when using a garage of limited dimensions is to extend it temporarly. In this I mean utilizing a side door (if there is one), or even just making an opening in a suitable wall if there isn't. Then, if there is room on your land, fit a timber lean-to (a shed with 3 sides) to where your door/aperture is. Add windows to get as much natural daylight as possible. This then can be your tool shop for drill, saws, small jigs, storage, etc. One of the three sides could incorporate a door if no other way into the garage (other than where the car goes in/out). The main part of the garage is then the construction bay.
I had been scratching my head about this for some time and my wife came up with the idea. She always says I look too deep into things most times - she's right of course.
Just a hint; if you run a temporary or permanent electrical feed down to the garage, use as big a cable size that you can. This will reduce voltage drop.
Hope this helps.
Richard

[traumahawk1973]

Thanks Richard
The shed has one door, and it's just a normal size door, not the up and over garage type. So I'm basically stuck with what I have. I think I will be resigned to constructing smaller parts in here, or in the attic until such time that a bigger space present's itself!
So it's down to how best to make use of the place I have.
I can get away with running a cable to the shed, to power a heater for the gluing, if higher temperatures are a must. But I would prefer to work with battery gear. Apparently the designer of the MiniMax once built on using nothing but hand tools to prove a point!

I will keep the forum informed as to how I progress.

Thanks for your advice Richard.

PS, my girlfriend say's the same thing to me about looking too deep into problems, she usually suggests a simple solution that knocks me sideways!

[Bill McCarthy]

Have you got a spare bedroon in the house that you could clear out to make small sections. Wing ribs can be quickly assembled on a jig in relative comfort. Your tail sections and other components can be made up there too. You only need more space when you start to marry all the bits. It wouldn't be the first time that an aircraft was built in a house. See the John Taylor (Monoplane and Titch) story.
An ISO container makes a very secure "shed" by the way.

[TRAZZELL]

Just bought Menestrel II plans from Monsieur Nicollier in France, and have discovered a shortage of 20cm in my workshop (7.6m clear length, wingspan 7.8m). I guess I'll be creating a temporary extension in due course!
Tony Razzell

[linspuk]

I rented a council garage to potentially use as my workshop, albeit with no light or power (I planned to run portable lighting from a car battery and use cordless tools for my FlyBaby project). The plan was to construct two 5ft x 3ft benches with a 3ft "bridge" between them, giving me options of 10ft, 13ft lengths.

However I now have permission to half-fill our small back garden with a 12ft x 8ft shed that can have power and light supplied from the house, and although this is too small for the fuselage and wing assembly stages of both my Flybaby and Zenith CH750 projects, the construction of all of the component pieces can proceed faster in the shed in the back yard than in the garage up the road. It'll be a few years before either project is ready for assembly into bigger pieces, at which point I'll find a larger workshop.

Go with the shed near the house and build the smaller bits first, worry about the big assemblies later.

[traumahawk1973]

Hi, and thanks for all your replies! Very useful and informative.
I think it's great that i can benefit from the experience of builders who have 'been there, done that'

Can anyone give me an idea of how warm the inside of a structure has to be for storing/gluing wood?

I know people who have built in some quite cold workshops with no issues, but I read in some accounts that a minimum of 75 degrees is necessary.
What's the guide in that respect?
My shed could be heated temporarily for gluing, but it would no be 24/7. It would just be for overnights etc, and then revert to normal shed temperatures for the UK.....

I'm not building in Spain because......?!!

Many thanks again.

[Ian Melville]

Hi Stuart, it depends on which glue?

Temperature will only need maintaining during the curing process, how long that is will again depend on the glue, which do you plan to use?

Cheers
Ian

[mikeblyth]

Joe Mcollum spoke about using an electric blanket. Over the job not in bed

[Ian Melville]

That reminds me that the composite guys make heat boxes from foam and a low power heater to cure composite layups. Poor man's curing oven.

[Richard Fitzpatrick]

Ref. electric blanket. Many years ago (PFA days, circa 1984) I visited a chap who had left an electric blanket on his aircraft; I forget for how many hours. Anyway he came back to a quarter of it nicely charred. It really did look a mess. Even if he had remained in his workshop, I would imagine that some damage would have ensued hidden under the blanket until the smoke would have given him a clue; still would have been too late then.
Richard

[Dave Reid]

Stewart,
Good for you. I'm a beginner too, but in a workshop 14' x 19'. I find it adequate, but would like more space. I don't have much advice, but the advice I got from others which is the most important, is to build right next to where you live. If your workshop's even only 5 minutes away, you won't spend nearly as much time in there as if it were 5 steps away. I aim for an hour per day minimum...
I did Dudley's LAA woodwork course - an excellent day's investment (and he said - 'if you're building an x-type machine, only build it because you want to build. If you are building an x-type because you want an x-type, go and buy one'). True words!
I can't recommend the EAA 1000 chapter workbenches highly enough. After cutting the timber to their list, it only takes an hour and a half to assemble a bench. 3 of them clamped together are rock solid and dead level.
Good luck!
Dave

[Chris Martyr]

Hi Traumahawk,
Welcome to the LAA , The Forum , and not least , the [not] dark art of homebuilding.
A Minimax fuselage should fit quite nicely in a single car garage when it's in its build stage . I have a Volksplane [VP-1] which I built in a single car garage .
As the other lads have said , a build table is the most important , but don't make it too large or too wide , tailor it to the Minimax's proportions because you will get to a stage where you need every friggin' square inch . I built my fus. quite early on in the process , and when I came to the wings , I discarded the build-table in favour of trestles , and hoisted the wings up into my garages roof-space when I needed to store them.
You will run out of space eventually , but by then the project will be fairly advanced . If you are using Aerolite 306 ,like I did , then it's best to do it in a fairly warm environment , about 60-65f is ideal, of course you can glue in quite tropical temperatures if you wish , but just remember that your 'shuffling time' will be a bit less . Try and avoid doing it in the cold as it doesn't set very well.
And if you're not using Aerolite, then disregard the above paragraph completely.
Finally , make sure that you find an Inspector who is compatible with both yourself and your project as he is going to be your best friend for the next few years . Remember ,,there are several ways to skin a rabbit , so don't go peeing him off by trying to second guess him on ChatForums .

P.S. Glad to see you have an understanding lady friend . [she got a sister]

[Rob Swain]

As the previous poster said - talk to your inspector. He should have the final say so as to the acceptability of your workshop.

I'd go for the big shed. Line it with insulation (walls and ceiling/roof) and then clad it with thin plywood inside of that. Not that expensive really.
If it is only 40m away from the house don't bother with extension leads etc. Get an electrician (unless you feel competent yourself) to wire the shed up to the mains properly:
- armoured cable of sufficient size terminating in...
- a small consumer unit with the necessary safety equipment: RCD, sockets fuse and lights fuse, like this one. http://www.screwfix.com/p/mk-sentry-4-w ... unit/33248
- Have 4 fluorescent tubes for lighting - they really are not very expensive and give loads of light. http://www.neweysonline.co.uk/crompton- ... on.raction Consider having them wired to more than one switch so if you are working down one end all evening you don't have the lights at the other end on, wasting electrickey.
- LOADS of sockets - preferably switched doubles. They cost little more than unswitched singles to buy, and take exactly the same effort to fit. This avoids the need for lots of nasty and dangerous extension leads - even if they can't electrocute you (courtesy of the RCD in the consumer unit) you can still trip over them - normally when carrying something expensive / fragile. Doubles also discourage the use of 2 and 3 way socket adaptors (ugh!) I'd suggest a minimum of one socket (double) in each corner, and another one half way along each long wall. Yes, it's a lot, but you'll be highly unlikely to overload the circuit as you'd never use all the sockets at the same time, and if by some fluke you do it will only trip the circuit breaker in your lovely consumer unit in the corner of the shed.
At a guess I'd say the electrics would come out at around £300-400 to have somebody do it. Depends on how easily the electrics can be connected at the house end, how much armoured cable is needed and how it is secured (clipped to wall or fence, or needing a catenery wire and some intermediate posts etc). May sound a lot but in a very short time you'll find it to have been money very well spent. I remember how sqalid three of my garages were when I first acquired them, and how nice they became with a modest outlay on lighting and accessible and safe sockets.

I consider the electrics to be an absolute necessity. Insulating the shed more of a nicety, but not by much.

Trust me - if you have to reel out a cable every time you want to do a bit of work on the plane a lot of the time it will seem like too much hassle. If you can just wander out and flick a switch for light you'll be far more likely to nip out to do a bit when you have an hour spare. If the shed is cold, dimly lit, and otherwise inhospitable, you'll be even less likely to.

Get a cylinder gas heater as well. Bit of a luxury, but it will warm up an insulated shed to a nice working temperature in about 5 minutes, even in the depths of winter. Much cheaper and faster than electric heaters, and if you forget to turn it off the bill is only for a cylinder refill. Leaving an electric heater on from one weekend to the next will seriously dent your electric bill.
Yes, I have left a heater on: a cylinder gas heater, fortunately...

The shed is also the proper place to be working on composite materials too - the fumes will permeate everywhere if you do any of it in (or even near) the house. Same with spraying paint, and cutting plastics, and ... well you get the idea!

Building a plane should be a pleasurable activity, not a trial of the will!