Jamie,
I really feel for your plight, as I had the same feelings with my moni, the problem ends with some people treating as an imbecile for trying to get help.
I helped a local member repair his KR and it ended up as a spacious one seater as the the previous owner had misrepresented the weight and balance so badly it was miles too heavy. Although the weight before seemed correct on paper and we had removed some heavy items as well. Do you remember the round the world KR, they must have done something right to get that flying with all the range and two people as well.
Engineering must have all the documentation for all the compulsory mods and requirements, so go back to them again. You are a member and they owe you assistance.
Graham.
Access to Previous Modifications?
Moderators: John Dean, Moderator
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Nigel Hitchman
- Posts: 357
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:10 pm
- Location: Hinton in the hedges
Jamie,
in answer to your initial question, the only way to find the mods approved on other KR2s is to go and look at the files at Turweston, not an easy option where you live! I belive they are organised in files for each individual aircraft, thus there wont be a big KR file, but rather you would need to find each aircraft. I guess you wont find any "standard mods" etc for the KR2 because all of those with approved mods would have been done years before the idea of standard mods came about. The only way a mod becomes a standard mod is if the person submitting the mod, submits it to such a standard that it can be issued to any other builder and they request that it is approved as a standard mod.
Much easier for people with Europas because the Europa club have a technical comitte (or similar) who work with the factory and submit mods to LAA on behalf of their members. This would seem to be an excellent way to do it, but only realistic if there are a lot of the same aircraft being built, helped a lot of course by the factory being in the UK. The RV squadron are trying to go down a similar course, or at least get the already approved mods known and available for other builders, but its been a long process and difficult to get anyone to volunteer for the process.
Although nowadays the mod process is more defined and rigerous, I think this wasnt the case years ago when most of the KRs were being built, probably John Walker had in his mind what all the requirements were and maybe Francis did too, but no one wrote it down in a way that it could be given to a new builder as a requirement. At least you have some documentation from Francis that gives you a start.
If you are in contact with Colin Hales, then surely he should have information on what mods are done to his aircraft and which you should do, I think he is building another KR2, so presumably the same mods will be applied. The only other one I know of being completed in recent years is the one you mention built by K Atkinson. That looked quite modified from the KR2 design from what I remember seeing of it briefly at Sherburn this year.
in answer to your initial question, the only way to find the mods approved on other KR2s is to go and look at the files at Turweston, not an easy option where you live! I belive they are organised in files for each individual aircraft, thus there wont be a big KR file, but rather you would need to find each aircraft. I guess you wont find any "standard mods" etc for the KR2 because all of those with approved mods would have been done years before the idea of standard mods came about. The only way a mod becomes a standard mod is if the person submitting the mod, submits it to such a standard that it can be issued to any other builder and they request that it is approved as a standard mod.
Much easier for people with Europas because the Europa club have a technical comitte (or similar) who work with the factory and submit mods to LAA on behalf of their members. This would seem to be an excellent way to do it, but only realistic if there are a lot of the same aircraft being built, helped a lot of course by the factory being in the UK. The RV squadron are trying to go down a similar course, or at least get the already approved mods known and available for other builders, but its been a long process and difficult to get anyone to volunteer for the process.
Although nowadays the mod process is more defined and rigerous, I think this wasnt the case years ago when most of the KRs were being built, probably John Walker had in his mind what all the requirements were and maybe Francis did too, but no one wrote it down in a way that it could be given to a new builder as a requirement. At least you have some documentation from Francis that gives you a start.
If you are in contact with Colin Hales, then surely he should have information on what mods are done to his aircraft and which you should do, I think he is building another KR2, so presumably the same mods will be applied. The only other one I know of being completed in recent years is the one you mention built by K Atkinson. That looked quite modified from the KR2 design from what I remember seeing of it briefly at Sherburn this year.
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Roger Partington
- Posts: 27
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:34 pm
- Location: Northumberland
Jamie,
I too have a great deal of sympathy for you. There is a fuselage of an unfinished KR2 hanging in the roof of our hangar which I believe stalled for much the same reasons that you are having trouble. I really hope you can find a way through this as there must be nothing worse than having to abandon a project due to paperwork after all the real graft that you must already have put in. Stick in there !
Presumably there must be a list of mandatory mods for the KR2 like any other aircraft and the rest discretionary.
The question of a list of previously approved mods is now an old one on the BB and I have asked the question myself why we can't just have a list of approved mods sorted by aircraft type, description and date so that we can at least see what has gone before. Maybe engineering are worried that these previous mods wouldn't stand up to modern day scrutiny and so don't want them reused because otherwise I can see no reason why they aren't made public on the web site. Ok, it's a big and boring job to catalogue them but it would be well within the capability of a temp.
Once you know where the mod is that you need, it would then be a simple job to pull it, copy it and send it out so that it could be referenced or included in a new submission.
We are often accused of trying to reinvent the wheel but if we aren't let in on the secret that the wheel has already been invented, how are we to know. Even if the previous mod isn't up to the required standard to just be resubmitted, at least it would give the basis for a new one, which should save engineering some work. You would think that they would want it as much as us.
Ok, I'm moaning again but this does seem so elementary.
I too have a great deal of sympathy for you. There is a fuselage of an unfinished KR2 hanging in the roof of our hangar which I believe stalled for much the same reasons that you are having trouble. I really hope you can find a way through this as there must be nothing worse than having to abandon a project due to paperwork after all the real graft that you must already have put in. Stick in there !
Presumably there must be a list of mandatory mods for the KR2 like any other aircraft and the rest discretionary.
The question of a list of previously approved mods is now an old one on the BB and I have asked the question myself why we can't just have a list of approved mods sorted by aircraft type, description and date so that we can at least see what has gone before. Maybe engineering are worried that these previous mods wouldn't stand up to modern day scrutiny and so don't want them reused because otherwise I can see no reason why they aren't made public on the web site. Ok, it's a big and boring job to catalogue them but it would be well within the capability of a temp.
Once you know where the mod is that you need, it would then be a simple job to pull it, copy it and send it out so that it could be referenced or included in a new submission.
We are often accused of trying to reinvent the wheel but if we aren't let in on the secret that the wheel has already been invented, how are we to know. Even if the previous mod isn't up to the required standard to just be resubmitted, at least it would give the basis for a new one, which should save engineering some work. You would think that they would want it as much as us.
Ok, I'm moaning again but this does seem so elementary.
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Mike Fawdrey
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:27 pm
- Location: Hednesford Staffs
Access to Previous Modifications
Hi Jamie,
I have recently been investigating A KR2 G-BTGD owned by Mark Gorlov but he said it was basically a single seater as it is limited to AUW of 900 lbs.
The aircraft was originally built by Dave Mullins and won an award from PFA for quality of build, I don't know if anyone knows Mr Mullins whereabouts.
I was interested in a modern looking a/c but it has the same sort of limitations in the Aerobat I fly.
You cant have passenger and fuel what a pity for a great looking aeroplane
I have recently been investigating A KR2 G-BTGD owned by Mark Gorlov but he said it was basically a single seater as it is limited to AUW of 900 lbs.
The aircraft was originally built by Dave Mullins and won an award from PFA for quality of build, I don't know if anyone knows Mr Mullins whereabouts.
I was interested in a modern looking a/c but it has the same sort of limitations in the Aerobat I fly.
You cant have passenger and fuel what a pity for a great looking aeroplane