Welding your own fusalage

[Mike Freeman]

Is it realistically possible to learn to weld good enough to get approved and weld up your own fuselage?

Has anyone done this starting from zero welding experience?

I like a few designs that are based on a tubular fuselage but have always been put off as I cannot weld.

[ColinC]

Hi,

Entirely possible!

My understanding is that you need to get a CAA approval for say, welding alloy steel, then apply to the LAA for an ongoing approval to work on your particular project. That approval lasts beyond the one year life of the CAA certification. You have to renew that CAA approval if you want to work on other aircraft.

The chap I would refer you to as having gone this route is Peter Mather who's Tailwind was featured in a recent LAA magazine, and who kindly sold me his DC TIG welder! I think that Peter found training at a local facility.

I have been trying to some sessions organised with a local college tutor for TIG welding. I am perhaps fortunate inbeing old enough to have done a apprenticeship where they decided designers needed a basic grounding, so I spent my first year of employment with the apprentice welders learning how to weld. That was perhaps before TIG was invented?

Perhaps we could persuade the ET to organise something? Does need specialist kit, but perhaps we bring our own or share? I'd be happy to provide mine to share on a course.

Regards,

Colin

[Mike Freeman]

Thanks Colin,

I have just been reading Peters build log and I will look into doing a similar thing. I had thought you needed to be an experienced welder with many years under your belt but it seems it is achievable.

Regards

[Bill McCarthy]

If PFA Metals Northampton are still trading, they used to sell 4130 offcuts for practice welding and machining.

[Mike Freeman]

Thanks, I will look into that.

The plan is to build wing ribs whilst practicing my welding and getting approved.

What would be the spec for a tig welder that is capable of welding 4130 without breaking the bank?

[Bill McCarthy]

I have ordered a "Jasic" 160amp multi-process welder - it does stick, MIG and TIG. The welder unit, argon gas bottle and regulator came out at £850 inc VAT. You may be able to do a better deal all the same. It comes with a 5 year guarantee.

[ColinC]

Bill,

PFA metals are no more but I think they got resurrected as Proformance Metals.

There is a lot of debate on homebuiltairplanes.com about welding and the gas versus TIG proponents slag it out from time to time.

Personally, I think gas would be useful but the ramifications of have flammable gases at home make that a non-starter. A guy near us got a lot of hotel bills to pay when he set fire to his garage and the fire brigade evacuated the road.

R-Tech do a good range of TIG machines and give good advice. I have a Migatronic DC machine that has all the useful features such as hf start, pulse etc. If you want to do aluminium welding you need AC too.

You need pure argon for TIG which is expensive but I got an amazing deal to get me to return to BOC so contact me if you want to try a set up a supplier. There are alternatives like Hobby-Weld, but BOC undercut them substantially.

A couple of useful links:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-gb/su ... etail.aspx


https://www.youtube.com/embed/1nLsrcscoOA

Regards,

Colin

[Basil]

I'd recomend getting a foot pedal. It reduces the skill level required.

[Rob Swain]

I wasn't doing it for aircraft purposes at the time but I learned to gas and stick weld by doing a City and Guilds course (actually EMFEC at the time) at the local college.
I was supposed to learn to MiG weld as well as part of the course, but limited kit and diabolical timetabling/organisation of the course meant I lost patience with them and jacked it in.
I did pass the first 2 parts though, and as part of it there were theory lectures too, as well as the practical stuff.
At the time TiG was done in the second year, if memory serves, but that may have changed.

It isn't difficult, but it can be dashed dangerous so some instruction is definitely a good thing.

As an example of the dangers here's a boring fact for the pub.
Trichloroethylene. Smelly stuff that degreases brilliantly. Expose it to UV light (such as a welding arc) and it decomposes to some rather lethal gas.

And in the Gas vs Tig debate I would gas weld a steel tube fuselage (Oxy Acetylene), but TiG is the way to go for stainless exhausts and other thin wall stuff!

Blast - you've started me thinking about making a sports car chassis from scratch again...

[ColinC]

Hi,

I think that you are referring to the generation of phosgene gas from heating chlorinated hydrocarbons, and it is not something you really want to be breathing.

There's an article here: http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety- ... e-gas.html

To be honest, breathing the by-products of welding is never a good idea but phosgene is at the upper end of risky things you don't want!

Regards,

Colin

[ColinC]

Rob,

I wouldn't argue that gas welding is probably the most versatile system, but for most of us with workshops in an urban environment storing the gasses at home is not an insurable option. Even Argon bottles could be a problem in the event of a fire, but IMO are a much lower risk.

Regards,

Colin

[Rob Swain]

I think a small set of oxy-acetylene bottles is acceptable. Certainly used to be.

Oxy-propane is another option. People have huge cylinders of propane at home for cooking and heating.

As regards non-combustible compressed gasses at home I have a half-full diving cylinder under my stairs - it's been there for years! I used to know diving families that kept 8 cylinders at home (2 each)!

Oh yes - there's a butane cylinder in my Super-Ser heater in the garage. That's intended for indoor domestic use!

Not sure that the regs are as draconian as some people think!

Sorry to argue - just posed as a talking point...

[ColinC]

Hi Rob,

There's a guy that used to live in the next village still being chased by the residents of his locality for their hotel bills after he set fire to his garage doing some welding and the fire brigade evacuated the whole local area.

Regards,

Colim

[Rob Swain]

I was talking about the regs rather than blatant stupidity.

You can set light to a garage testing a spark plug if you are sufficiently inept.

Regarding welding at home I refer people to my previous comments about getting some training.

[ColinC]

Hi Rob,

My point was just about insurance, not regulations. The guys insurers wouldn't pick up the tab after the welding accident wrecked his garage and evacuated the neighbours overnight.

On a slightly more positive note, I have finally got around to practicing some TIG welding and I have to say that I'm very impressed how much easier it is than gas welding. I'm far from the standard I'd like to be but there's hope! The only thing I have a problem with is that my auto darkening helmet is perhaps too dark and I need one with a better range.

Regards,

Colin