Sonex aircraft

The place to raise issues, ask questions, swap ideas and discuss anything related to aircraft engineering, maintenance and building.
NB Any opinions expressed in this forum are not necessarily those of LAA Engineering

Moderators: John Dean, Moderator

jfallis
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:12 pm

Sonex aircraft

Post by jfallis » Sat Aug 09, 2008 3:24 pm

Sonex aircraft do not appear to be very popular with members, with only a few kits under construction. Although I have never seen one 'in the flesh', does anyone think they know why more aren't being built? John

MDF1
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: Hampshire

Post by MDF1 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 10:14 pm

Price?? (Check the US price list - £11400 including engine. Add VAT shipping £/$ 1.80)
Last edited by MDF1 on Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

mike newall
Posts: 330
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:56 pm
Location: N Yorkshire

Post by mike newall » Sat Aug 16, 2008 11:37 pm

Most definitely the price. We looked at one and dismissed it as it was twice the price of the States.

Could always get one in the States and get it shipped through a 3rd party though.

gasax
Posts: 165
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:43 pm
Location: Aberdeen

Post by gasax » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:10 pm

Bear in mind that the UK dealer has been through a fairly thorough flight evaluation of his modified machine - which was built speculatively - if the PFA/LAA had not approved the modifications to improve the lngitudinal stability his only option would have been break it up or try and sell it in the States.

So I guess he is trying to recoupe some of that expenditure.

So in theory all you might have to do is repeat everything he had to do.....

mike moulai
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:33 am
Location: Lincolnshire
Contact:

Post by mike moulai » Thu Aug 21, 2008 12:42 pm

With regard to the popularity of the sonex, we only started taking orders in the last week of November 2007 so in 9 months we have sold 8 kits and 6 AeroVee engines to non Sonex airframe builders. This is a figure we are quite happy with, it is almost 1 kit per month and we have 3 orders pending.
We have also not yet done much in the way of promoting the product which is soon about to change.
The Sonex is also a very mission specific aircraft that is not to everyones taste.
Thanks to the hard work and risk taken by other companies including ourselves there is a good selection of very good aircraft for all to choose from.
We feel and I am sure our customers do also feel the Sonex offers excellent value for money, we dont think there is anything available in the UK that offers the kit quality, de-rigability, and outright performance of a Sonex. The price of a AeroVee Sonex is just £22,706 Vat and shipping and will cruise at around 120mph, the Jab 3300 Sonex ix £27,500 incl Vat and shipping and will cruise at around 150mph, both can also carry 2 adults and full fuel and still be legal. The Sonex has been designed and stressed for aerobatics which will hopefully be granted in the UK soon too.
As any business we need to make a profit or there will be no one at all to sell anything.
It also costs a lot of money to gain approval, exhibit at shows for everyone to come and see all that is on offer, advertise, general business expenses, this all needs to be paid for by the product.
Sonex themselves openly amit that they advertise the product at the lowest possible cost to get airborne.
In the UK kit price is a whole lot more than you get in a basic kit including some tools.
I wonder how much my car would cost direct from factory.

mike moulai
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:33 am
Location: Lincolnshire
Contact:

Post by mike moulai » Fri Aug 22, 2008 11:30 pm

Hi MDF1, I see from your price comparason you state the price of a Sonex in the USA is £11400, so that makes the exchange rate something like $2.25/£1.00 no account for VAT, Shipping, all the All the extra things that the UK kit has?.
Last week I just ordered another Sonex Kit and got well under $2.00/£1.00.
Apples for Apples ?.

MDF1
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: Hampshire

Post by MDF1 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 1:00 pm

Makes you wonder how Vans Aircraft managed to sell over 400 kits into the UK without an agent or anyone in the UK making a Profit. Have nothing against the Sonex or it's agent.

Someone asked a question, 2 of us gave the same answer. Mike may want to reflect on that?

Nick Allen
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:00 am
Location: Oxford
Contact:

Post by Nick Allen » Sun Aug 24, 2008 3:32 pm

Makes you wonder how Vans Aircraft managed to sell over 400 kits into the UK without an agent or anyone in the UK making a Profit.
See gasax's post above. As I recall from correspondence on the old BB, the Sonex factory was not at all interested -- to say the least: I think a certain hostility was involved! -- in making the modifications that the PFA said would be needed to gain approval. Vans clearly have a different approach.
033719

MDF1
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: Hampshire

Post by MDF1 » Sun Aug 24, 2008 5:09 pm

"in making the modifications that the PFA said would be needed to gain approval"


Maybe that's the real issue??

MDF1
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:43 pm
Location: Hampshire

Post by MDF1 » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:57 pm

At the end of the day it's up to the buyer to decide if he feels Mike offers value for money at his current prices and it's upto Mike to change his prices as he see's fit to attract sales.

As it stands I know a number of people who are voting with their feet...

Personally I'll wait until the RV-12 is cleared in the UK and take comfort from the fact that I'll have not been penalized for living in the UK.

(will refrain from responding to personal abuse so please do not post any more, it only weakens your limited argument)

G.Dawes
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:00 am

Monnett Aircraft

Post by G.Dawes » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:23 am

I realise some peole might be upset, but the trouble Mike went through trying to get the Sonnex through the PFA engineering was a tedious exercise, There seems a dislike by someone in the PFA/LAA towards Monnett and it is certainly reflected from Monnett. I still have my moni and it is a sad little aeroplane/ 5000 pound pile of alloy scrap ,as the same persons have the same attitude to it. I saw the article in the LAA magazine about the electric Moni and thought there would be a fat chance of that happening here, with the attitudes that are forthcoming from Engineering. Mike was quite supportive of my Moni when he was at the Rally when I took it there. I hope that I would be to him.

Brian Hope
Posts: 1271
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:28 pm
Location: Sheerness Kent

Post by Brian Hope » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:43 pm

It would seem to me that Engineering has a very positive attitude to John Monnett's designs, the Sonerai 1 and 2, the Moni and the Sonex have all been approved for UK build - hardly indicative of a negative attitude.

Post Reply