Equivalent Metal Materials

[braywood]

I'm building a Pietenpol; the original plans were simple - use steel!

The 'Wills' approved plans specify several materials that I have had trouble finding, equivalent or otherwise.
Is there somewhere I can look up equivalent material qualities/alloys?

For example:

Steel - S510, 28 ton steel are specified on the Wills plans, but I can't find this stuff. What is the current equivalent designation - I know 4130 is an acceptable substitute, but want to know what is equivalent to these alloys/designations.

Aluminium - 2L65 - this designation is elusive also - is 6061 a substitute?

Any help is welcomed!!

Mark B.

[ColinC]

Hi,

You should find that TL 1.16 is a useful guide, it may be found on the engineering pages:

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co. ... 20Data.pdf

Substitution is a minefield for some materials, but hopefully as you suggest, your steel is not much of a problem. 4130 is substantially stronger than S510 particularly post welding and is readily available, with often a next-day service from LAS. It is also more corrosion resistant. The only thing to watch for would be that it probably needs a bigger bend radius than S510 if you are forming things. S510 is available but you usually need to buy in big sheets.

Ultimately, you'll need to get LAA approval for the grade substitutions but I'll bet you aren't the first Pietenpol builder to want to change those elusive UK BS specs. to the more commonly available US aerospace metal grades. Have you checked what other builders have used? The Pietenpol Club ought to be able to help. There may already be a standard mod. in the system for the changes, if not LAA engineering will advise you on the best way to proceed.

regards,

Colin

[Mark A]

BS 2L65 is a (mainly) copper-Aluminium alloy. The nearest ASTM grade is more likely to be 2024.

The strength and elongation properties are very much affected by heat treatment, so you really need to know that if you are looking for a substitute.
2024 is mostly available in T3 or T4 tempers as rod, bar or extruded profiles or as T3 alclad sheeting.

[Chris Martyr]

Hi mark, Colin's right , as I am sure the Pietenpol community will have a more contemporary list of materials.
After digging through my "tech. library", I found a similar spec. sheet prepared by the PFA years ago, where it lists 'British Equivalents' to the sometimes vague U.S. specifications.

For my VP-1 plans they also showed S.510 as the UK equivalent to 4130 , but that was way back , before 4130 was as readily available as it is now. I can't think that 4130 isn't used in your Pietenpol.

Also , well done Mark A for finding the 2L65 equivalent . Couldn't find that anywhere in my lists.

[braywood]

Hello Gents - thanks for the replies - I am not really looking to substitute materials, as I know this is a dangerous area. I am simply wanting to know what is equivalent (or better) than the alloy's referred to on the drawings that are either difficult or impossible to source. 4130 is easy.

The aluminium alloy is of interest to simply reduce weight, by using in place of steel, as provided for on the approved plans. Problem is simply finding the stuff! If I can't get this alloy, I want something equivalent or better/stronger! It is hard to know if the 'nearest ASTM grade is more likely to be 2024' is close on the safe side or the risky side......

I'll ask the question with the UK Pietenpol Club members.....haven't done that yet. Wanted some ammunition first!

Thanks again for your help,

Mark B.

[Mark A]

BS 2L 65-1959 appears to be long obsolete.
From what I can see, it appears to be replaced by L167 and L168 for sheet or bar/extrusion respectively.

This is basically a 2014 grade with minimum yield about 350 MPa and A5 elongation >7%

Hope that helps.

Mark