Can anyone identify this?

JohnLindsay · Post by **JohnLindsay** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 5:40 pm

Hi,
Here are some pictures of one of a pair of heel brake master cylinders fitted to a mid-1970's Evans VP-1. Can anyone identify its origins (motor bike, perhaps)? It bears no maker's name, just instructions on the reservoir lid (in both English and French) to use Dot 3 brake fluid. I need to locate some replacement seals.
All help gratefully received.
John Lindsay.

Nick Allen · Post by **Nick Allen** » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:59 pm

It looks at first glance like the one on my BMW bike -- I'll check in the cold light of day. (I'm sure it's a motorbike unit -- it's got the threaded socket where a mirror screws in.)

Ian Melville · Post by **Ian Melville** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:47 am

Also sure it's a motorcycle unit, IIRC black wasn't the 'in' colour until the early 80's In those days smaller bikes tended to have cable front brakes. Some of the much newer Yamaha units show a resembleance.
Honda and Suzuki tended to use a screw-top. Cannot explain the French. If the VP1 was built in this country, I would suspect the donor bike was also available here.

I would suggest you go to a proper motorcycle engineer with the part. Any that have been around a while will be able to identify it. Or try the biking forums.

Nick Allen · Post by **Nick Allen** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:04 am

I was suffering from false memory syndrome -- not the cylinder from a 1980s BMW, but I have ridden something recently that was similar, just can't remember what. Ian's advice makes sense. Or you could just go to your nearest bike breaker and find a similar cylinder -- they are surprisingly generic, and you could probably even find something that you could swap that modified brake lever into.

martin payne · Post by **martin payne** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:09 pm

Hi
I'm think it's off an "Off Road" bike as it has no Brake light switch on it, all road bike from early 80's had the switch. This looks like mid 80's on... It could be something like a Honda XR125 or similar, pretty sure it's Honda though.

Bill McCarthy · Post by **Bill McCarthy** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:13 pm

It is very similar to the brake unit on my farm quad bike (Honda). It has no brake light switch on it as it is not certified for road use (no tail lights). A Honda dealer will sort you out I am sure.

JohnLindsay · Post by **JohnLindsay** » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:39 pm

Gents,
I can't thank you enough for your excellent advice; you have successfully solved the problem for me. Following up your suggestions that it looks like a Honda part and having now removed the innards from the master cylinder, I have found advertisements on eBay for Honda master cylinder repair kits whose innards not only look identical but are of the correct bore size too. Fantastic!
Thank you all, once again.

Ian Melville · Post by **Ian Melville** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:23 pm

martin payne wrote:Hi
I'm think it's off an "Off Road" bike as it has no Brake light switch on it, all road bike from early 80's had the switch. This looks like mid 80's on... It could be something like a Honda XR125 or similar, pretty sure it's Honda though.

I also looked at off road bikes and found the Yamaha have an identical cover, even the master cylinder looks similar. Only problem is that it is much later than 1970s, neared 1990s onwards.

http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorc ... 1/o/m10175

Then get a realy cool cover like this

Ian Melville · Post by **Ian Melville** » Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:36 pm

What Bike was it in the end?

Were Quad bikes around in the 70s?

JohnLindsay · Post by **JohnLindsay** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:42 pm

Well, the overhaul kits that I have bought on eBay, based on a photograph of the contents, are for a Honda MBX50 but, according to the seller, exactly the same kit fits a large number of different Honda models. Only when the kits arrive will I know if they are absolutely the correct ones for my particular master cylinders.
In the meantime, my researches on eBay have found a variety of Kawasaki bikes also with very similar looking master cylinders, lids and overhaul kits, and I am beginning to get the feeling that these brake components are not made by Honda or Kawasaki at all but the Japanese equivalent of Lockheed or Girling, ie braking system manufacturers whose products are used on a wide variety of bikes. Strange though that there's no maker's name on either of my cylinders. As to their age, mine are clearly marked in old fashioned imperial dimensions "1/2" (meaning, I assume, the bore) but the repair kits are all shown as 12.7 mm diam.
So, I haven't got properly to the bottom of it but, thanks to you all, at least I now know that my master cylinders originate from a Japanese bike, probably a Honda. To start with, that came as a complete surprise to me but, thinking about it, why not use readily available bike brake parts?

P.S. I do like the look of those custom reservoir lids!

Bill McCarthy · Post by **Bill McCarthy** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 9:12 am

On the other hand you could go along to a bike dealer and get the whole unit from a scrap bike/quad outfit and swap over the operating lever mechanism which you have, to it.

Ian Melville · Post by **Ian Melville** » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:03 am

I would be inclined to agree with you Bill, but will the LAA want a mod fee?

The advantage would be that you could make a careful note in the aircarft records(logbook) the source of the part and refrence numbers.

Rob Swain · Post by **Rob Swain** » Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:12 pm

JohnLindsay wrote:...and I am beginning to get the feeling that these brake components are not made by Honda or Kawasaki at all but the Japanese equivalent of Lockheed or Girling, ie braking system manufacturers whose products are used on a wide variety of bikes.

Got it in one!

Looks like the reservoir and cylinder might be a Nissin one.

Other Japanese brake manufacturers include Tockico (often fitted to Kawasakis and some Suzukis) and Sumitomo (modern Yamaha superbikes).

I think it is from a road bike as there is the mirror mount, although these are often plugged if not used. The brake switch may have been removed, or might originally have been a pressure actuated one somewhere in the system further down. I've used these that double as a Banjo Bolt on bikes I've owned. Less common on a front brake though...

I note the banjo bolts and hoses are looking tired. Steel braided ones are available in any length you want and with a variety of different banjo angles from bike accessory outfits. Some make them to order, and some sell a component based solution called BuildALine from Goodridge. I've used both sucessfully. If you want a line for the VP1 that goes from the lever to the caliper in one run you'll probably need them made to order. They can be plastic covered too, in a variety of colours.

As regards the parts being marked in imperial measurements a major market for Japanese bikes is the US...

JohnLindsay · Post by **JohnLindsay** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:05 am

Hi Rob,

Many thanks for confirming the conclusions I was beginning to arrive at and for the names of possible brake system manufacturers. The US bike market being an explanation for the imperial dimension now makes perfect sense.

I'm sure that these master cylinders are from a road bike; as well as the mirror mounts, both do have the remnants of brake light switches (although, at first, I didn't realise what I was looking at).

I agree absolutely about the tired hoses, that was to be my next investigation and I shall certainly follow up your most welcome suggestions regarding Goodridge.

Thank you again for your advice.