Condor Comfort?

WBerry · Post by **WBerry** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 5:17 pm

Hi All,
A while back when I was starting a group up, we got a test flight in a Rollason Condor. The short field performance was amazing, and its looks classic. But for the brief time I sat in it, I wasn't sure I was going to find it comfortable for long periods.

Things have long moved on and my thoughts return to Condors. To get to the point, in theory should my leggy 6ft body comfortably fit in a Condor?

And in practice, does anyone have a Condor in the midlands they'd be happy for me to scrounge a ride in (shared expenses, and a bacon cob on me of course).

My breath is baited, and my fingers crossed

Will.

J.C. · Post by **J.C.** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:23 pm

As someone that spent a lot of time in Condors doing taildragger conversions ,as good as they are, I would not put the words Condor and Comfort in the same sentance!

WBerry · Post by **WBerry** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:06 pm

I see.

Nick Allen · Post by **Nick Allen** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:27 pm

There's one at Hinton (if that's Midlands enough for you), and GazNav who flies it posts on here sometimes...

Gaznav · Post by **Gaznav** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:56 pm

Hi Will

I am one of the owners of G-AVOH at Hinton; she's a D62B 100hp Condor.

I am 6ft 1in with a 44inch chest and I just fit in. You need to be careful with W&B if, like me, you weigh in at around 100kgs (about 15 and a half stone in old money). I have to take out the rather nice leather seat base and sit on a 2" thick piece of covered foam (I made it from Confor foam that helps in the event of an impact). With my headset on I just clear the roof - there is no forward/aft or up/down adjustment on the seat as it just plywood over the main spar. Comfortable? Nope. Bearable? Yes, for the 2-3hrs that is the maximum time between landing and refuels.

After all the negative stuff, you probably think "why bother?", well, I just love flying the old girl. It reminds me of a bygone era (something that I got the bug with when I did 3 seasons on the BBMF's Lancaster and Dakota!).

I can offer you a chance to come and sit in her, however, if you are 6ft and probably 75kgs+, then we probably shouldn't fly together as the W&B and performance would need some very careful calculation. Max All Up Weight of the Condor is 1475lbs, and the empty weight of OH is 997lbs, so that leaves 478lbs of useful load. If we take half tanks (8 Imp Gals - about 1hr flying time with 20mins of div fuel) at 58lbs, 10lbs of oil and my 220lb bulk that leaves just 190lbs left - 75kgs of passenger plus 8kgs of headsets and clothing for both of us. However, "Maths in public" is always a dangerous thing, so let me know if I've made an error!

One final thing to note is that "no two Condors are the same". We found this out when we were asked to move the battery box onto the front firewall to help with CofG. None of the extant mods that other Condor owners had submitted to the LAA would fit - we had to design our own. So you may find a Condor that fits you better than my one.

All the best

Gary

Mike Mold · Post by **Mike Mold** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:13 pm

There's an extremely nice Condor now for sale at Watchford Farm in East Devon. Steve Robson has moved to the dark side, having bought an RV4!

Gavin Bell · Post by **Gavin Bell** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 7:59 pm

At 6'3" I had the same problems in finding a permit aircraft to suit. In the end I bought a Jodel 1050 which is great.
During the process I also looked at a Super Emeraude that wasn't really for sale, however it had loads of room and I would have had to add foam to the seat base to get up to the canopy roof. The rudder pedals could have done with being a couple of inches further forward but I didn't see that woul dhave been a major issue.

Happy hunting

Gavin

Paul Lawrence · Post by **Paul Lawrence** » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:34 pm

I learnt to fly in G-AVOH at Thruxton back in 1992. I use to fly with my dad as a kid mainly in 150's & 172's so the CFI at the time would not let me learn in a 150!
I know part own a Jodel 112 out of Leicester, there is a share for sale if you are interested? Nice to see OH at Sywell, not much has changed since I last flew her in in late 1992!

Cookie · Post by **Cookie** » Tue Sep 21, 2010 9:22 pm

I am trustee of the G-ATOH group and flew her in to Sywell for the LAA Rally in order to attend the LAA stand - now based on a farm strip north of Birmingham. We're off to Shobdon tomorrow in her. Also a D62B 100hp.

Give me a call. Phone numbers under LAA Coaching section.

Cookie

WBerry · Post by **WBerry** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:28 pm

Thanks all, for the chat and offers. Greatly appreciated.

It was indeed, the Condor down in Devon (on AFORS) that set alight my imagination re Condors again. That and the recently refurbed Condor I'd seen initially both have ample useful load for 2 big pilots and full fuel.

All very interesting, thanks again.

Will.

Gaznav · Post by **Gaznav** » Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:31 pm

Ample room for 2 big pilots and full fuel

Are you sure it's a Condor?!!

Here is an example load sheet from the POH - this is how they came from the factory:

The following loading condition is with full fuel, oil, pilot, passenger and luggage.

Tare Weight 950lbs
Fuel 16 Imp Gals 115lbs
Oil 1 Imp Gal 9lbs
Pilot 165lbs
Passenger 165lbs
Luggage 50lbs

TOTAL 1454lbs

Now, that is 20lbs short of MAUW. If we added 50lbs to the pilot at 215lbs to make him a "big pilot" and just 20lbs to the passenger at 185lbs to make a "medium pilot" - don't forget this is fully clothed with a headset, maps and other aviation stuff.

Tare Weight 950lbs
Fuel 16 Imp Gals 115lbs
Oil 1 Imp Gal 9lbs
Pilot 215lbs
Passenger 185lbs
Luggage 0lbs

TOTAL 1474lbs (MAUW 1475lbs)

In my opinion I would be really careful with "full fuel and 2 big pilots" in a Condor.

WBerry · Post by **WBerry** » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:11 pm

To keep it simple for me I'm sticking to kilos. Whilst most Condors I've seen advertised have had about 200-210kg useful load, I've seen recently refurbed ones with 250kg useful load (like the Devon one on AFORS). So if my public maths is right, that makes ~50kg fuel, and 2x100kg for 2 big blokes.

When I was looking to buy last time, the bloke who refurbed his said he was shocked at how much stuff he got off the original wing coverings. Plus he fitted a lightweight battery, etc.

So there's hope for yours yet

Gaznav · Post by **Gaznav** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:57 pm

Will

It's probably cheaper and easier for me to start running around the block to lose 5-10kgs!

All the best for your search

WBerry · Post by **WBerry** » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:53 pm

For the love of God, don't suggest that to my wife