Mixing Microlight and class A in the circuit.

Kelvin Denize · Post by **Kelvin Denize** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:13 pm

I need some advice on how to mix microlight and class A into the circuit.......well, into the approch pattern as the airfield I am thinking of has no circuit.

All approch's are straight in from 4 mile, very noise sensitive area....how do you combine these two differing machines at a very busy airfield.

If I can put together a good argument I might be able to get microlights allowed where they currently are not. If you have experiance of dealing with this situation then I would really love to hear from you!!!

Cheers,
Kelvin

Rod1 · Post by **Rod1** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:27 pm

“I want a cheap to fly permit aircraft that I can tour with my wife around Europe. It must lift at least 300kilo with fuel and be easy to fly. It must fit people 2 meters high. My PA28 can do it why can't any permit aircraft?”

Why not an RV10?

Rod1

PB · Post by PB » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:58 pm

I know thi8s is not really very helpful, but you could always do what they do at Popham. Everyone bimbles around pretty much where they like coming in from all directions and by some miracle no one seems to bump into anyone else....

Tony Harrison-Smith · Post by **Tony Harrison-Smith** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:23 pm

If you accept the Piper Cubs and Austers into the airfield, then microlights will not be any problem. The can approach at very similar speeds and have the advantage that they tend to approach higher and have a steeper final approach meaning they are quieter for the local residents. Out our airfield we have microlights, Rans RV's, Zlin and a Stearman without any problems, but we do have a shorter final.

Les Field · Post by **Les Field** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:27 pm

I don't mind having to slow the Jabiru down to help the C150's.

Seriously though, Popham works. You keep an eye out and use common sense.

Kelvin Denize · Post by **Kelvin Denize** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:44 pm

Popham might work at Popham but it will not work close to Class A, in a very noise sensitive area that bans normal circuits.

I have to come up with a proposal to be able to put all types onto the 4 mile final but with such differing speeds I just don't see it being possible.

I am going to try and push for a shorter base join for the microlights as I just can't see the four mile bit working with them.

As for the RV10, I have heard that I might be able to fit in a RV series but have not yet found one I can try!

mikehallam · Post by **mikehallam** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:47 pm

Well..Actually er 'NO'.

Last year's Poham was a mess of greedy fast a/c cutting and weaving scaringly in the 'circuit'. Dangerously so for those chaps trying to make a correct final approach.

Naturally though obvious to all there, we dear old flyers didn't make an issue of it so as not to expose us to CAA censure.

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:14 am

You must have been at a different Popham to me then Mike, I had no problem getting in and it was all very well ordered.
A four mile final is likely to be a pain if you have particularly slow microlights, faster ones won't have an issue as they can just keep their speed up until late on the approach, just as you would have to in a Cub for instance. Somebody trundling all the way down at 40mph could make life interesting for the faster GA types.

PB · Post by PB » Thu Apr 03, 2008 8:57 am

As a more serious response, have a look at combining shorter finals with glide or low-power steep(er) approaches. There are lots of strip flyers who are still hooked on the three-degree drag-it-in type approach. This has the engine at higher power at a lower altitude than a steeper or glide approach. The impact on noise footprint is significant.

I am always amazed at noise-sensitive fields when they make me fly a huge flat bomber circuit at 1000 feet with cruise power set when I could just glide in round a nice short circuit with the engine at idle. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out which has the bigger noise footprint.

Phil Burgess · Post by **Phil Burgess** » Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:03 pm

I fly my Pitts at RAF Cranwell. Other aircraft types that we have range from Tigermoth speeds upwards. During the working day there is usually simultaneous opperations of Dominee, King Air and Grob Tutor aircraft. The jets fly a wide race track circuit at 1000 feet and the slower Tutors fly another circuit inside this at 800 or 500 feet and can choose from landing on the main runway or parallel grass runway. Obviously this is all strictly controlled by ATC.
When I fly the Pitts, ATC is often closed and I find myself being the fastest thing in the circuit. I must fit in with everyone else and this is my responsibility. Just because I can fly a circuit at 155mph and can climb to circuit height by halfway down the runway does not make it clever or mandatory. As a pilot of a higher performance type I take it as my responsibility to give way to lower performance types. If I find the approach blocked by a slower type then I go around, it isn't really all that much hassle.

Kelvin Denize · Post by **Kelvin Denize** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:52 am

I am not going to write where I am talking about so as to not ruffle feathers anywhere. I am trying to be as diplomatic as possible but also giving enough information so I can get real and intelligent answers.

You can make an intelligent guess where it is and you will most likely be right but I am not going to mention the airfield by name just yet.

The airfield owner has stated to me that if I can show to him the there is a safe way and a good way to mix the two just for that day then he will seriously consider it and allow it. I believe he was sincere when he said it so I am going to do my best to put forward a proposition that might work.

If I do not bother then.....yes I am on a loser as you say. Who dares wins is a motto some of you like to bandy about or how about nothing ventured....

I have though up one method and that is to have a special microlight slot, say 1/2 hour but this might cause trouble with any schools or any other arrivals so I am on the verge of throwing that away.

I also might try a special short base for the microlights but I can't see that being allowed either. I need ideas and this is why this post is up here.

I have contacted the local microlight field for their suggestions.

I give this one more week, then I will have to post of any proposal I have thought up.

Cheers,

Mishek (kelvin)

Kelvin Denize · Post by **Kelvin Denize** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:53 am

PS. Cirris 272, if I get this to work you owe me a beer in the club for that statement.

flyin'dutch' · Post by **flyin'dutch'** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:06 am

In the 'good old days' microlight was synonymous with deltawinged trikes, slow and noisy.

That is the reason why many airfields did not like them.

If you want to tackle this it would be beneficial to point out that most of the microlights are now quiet and quite fast machines that can easily mix with any other SEP using any aerodrome.

To demonstrate this you only have to get hold of one of these modern birds and fly a few circuits taking the owner of the aerodrome along or have them watch the proceedings.

Tony Harrison-Smith · Post by **Tony Harrison-Smith** » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:07 pm

If it is of any help, North Weald have a microlight school there and they mix with all kinds of traffic including jets with no problems at all. The problem is more of a perceived one than actual in my experience as microlights are a lot faster now and can quite easily come in on final at a high speed and slow down for the last half mile or so. This can be specified when getting PPR.

Tony

Light Aircraft Association

Mixing Microlight and class A in the circuit.

Mixing Microlight and class A in the circuit.

Don't give up so easily....