Hi All, Newbie incoming...
I've spent a while lurking and see lots of very helpful info here. I'm not that new to flying (but compared to some of you lot am a rank amateur). I have my own ac (a PS28), its a factory built, EASA certified thing, I like it very much for my level of flying. I'm based at Turweston so the LAA is on my doorstep so to speak.
My reason for joining (other than being able to talk to likeminded folk) is that I'd like to build an aeroplane, in fact Ive thought about it for as long as I can remember I have the space and am building a bigger workshop which will comfortably fit a single project (6m x 12m). so space is not an issue, the question is; which one...
I've been looking at the many and various types both on and not-on 'the list'. and having created a sort of mission profile/things I like the look of, its a huge generalisation, but, everything I fancy of is not on the LAA list. So my question is this: how sensible would it be to try and get a Kit aircraft to be accepted by the LAA on a PtF and is this challenge frequently undertaken or the 'the list' a very exclusive affair?
the aeroplane Im thinking of is proven and very popular in Germany and a few other countries with lots of nice flying examples.
Any and all advice gratefully received
New Member Intro
Moderators: John Dean, Moderator
Re: New Member Intro
Hi,
Welcome to the association, you will find lots of like minded people here and I have made lots of friends through the LAA.
Getting a new aeroplane accepted is not easy but it can be done. I am going through this process now. Basically there are two routes as I understand it, proving compatability with CS-vLA which will require the assistance of the manufacturer. The second is through proof of satisfactory service where an aircraft type has operated safely for a large number of hours. Both routes can be expensive in both time and money.
The best thing to do would be to sound out the engineering teams view on the type you are interested in this will give some idea of the obstacles you might face. Prior to embarking on such a project it would be best to fly the type yourself, probably even get an LAA test pilot to fly it to see if it would be acceptable to the LAA.
Francis and his team do their best to keep us all safe and a number of times new designs have require modification of control or aerodynamic systems to bring the up to spec. My advice would be to seriously consider your flight envelope and to look for a type already on the list that fits the bill. You should also bear in mind that if you abandon a project half way through you are likely to loose money.
Hope this helps
Steve
Welcome to the association, you will find lots of like minded people here and I have made lots of friends through the LAA.
Getting a new aeroplane accepted is not easy but it can be done. I am going through this process now. Basically there are two routes as I understand it, proving compatability with CS-vLA which will require the assistance of the manufacturer. The second is through proof of satisfactory service where an aircraft type has operated safely for a large number of hours. Both routes can be expensive in both time and money.
The best thing to do would be to sound out the engineering teams view on the type you are interested in this will give some idea of the obstacles you might face. Prior to embarking on such a project it would be best to fly the type yourself, probably even get an LAA test pilot to fly it to see if it would be acceptable to the LAA.
Francis and his team do their best to keep us all safe and a number of times new designs have require modification of control or aerodynamic systems to bring the up to spec. My advice would be to seriously consider your flight envelope and to look for a type already on the list that fits the bill. You should also bear in mind that if you abandon a project half way through you are likely to loose money.
Hope this helps
Steve
Last edited by P5151 on Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Steve Arnold
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Ian Melville
- Posts: 1001
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:21 pm
Re: New Member Intro
Hi Clive, and welcome.
If you are conceding something not on the approved list then will need to really, really WANT it.
As Steve said there are two routes to approval I am currently going through the approval process for a deign with over 2500hrs, and it is still a bumpy road. To do so through proof of meeting certification, you will need the full support of the designer, or be qualified to do the process yourself (or pay a man to do it).
FAR 23 is a US standard, the EASA equivalent CS-23 is applicable to 4 seat aircraft. Single and two seat aircraft over the microlight limits are broadly required to conform to CS-VLA. You will need to justify any deviation.
In the first instance I would ring Francis Donaldson and outline your proposal. It is possible that someone is already working on that type, or it may be a No-Go. Don't forget that there is now the 'Experimental' option, for which you would need to talk to FD anyway.
Good luck
If you are conceding something not on the approved list then will need to really, really WANT it.
As Steve said there are two routes to approval I am currently going through the approval process for a deign with over 2500hrs, and it is still a bumpy road. To do so through proof of meeting certification, you will need the full support of the designer, or be qualified to do the process yourself (or pay a man to do it).
FAR 23 is a US standard, the EASA equivalent CS-23 is applicable to 4 seat aircraft. Single and two seat aircraft over the microlight limits are broadly required to conform to CS-VLA. You will need to justify any deviation.
In the first instance I would ring Francis Donaldson and outline your proposal. It is possible that someone is already working on that type, or it may be a No-Go. Don't forget that there is now the 'Experimental' option, for which you would need to talk to FD anyway.
Good luck
Ian Melville
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Re: New Member Intro
Hi
Ian is correct CS-VLA, is the code, I am guilty of getting the codes mixed up but have edited my post accordingly.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
Ian is correct CS-VLA, is the code, I am guilty of getting the codes mixed up but have edited my post accordingly.
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
Steve Arnold
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Brian Hope
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:28 pm
- Location: Sheerness Kent
Re: New Member Intro
Hi Clive, welcome to the LAA. As a general rule, people who decide to progress a design through UK approval do so because they want to become the UK distributor for the marque. A 'popular in Germany' marque that has yet to see the light of day in the UK is Funk (FL Lighplanes), they have quite a range of desirable models so maybe that's where you are looking. I think a couple of people have looked at FK but have not been able to come up with a satisfactory commercial arrangement, which is a shame. If you decide to go ahead, selecting a design that already has established a good service history will certainly open up an easier route, but it could still require some load testing and/or stressing calculations. As has been suggested, talk to Engineering about it before making any decisions.
I would be very wary of the E conditions route for bringing in an established design, it isn't really intended for that purpose. It offers restricted use of the aircraft for experimentation and development purposes and once 'experimentation' has been completed, it would have to go through the normal approval process anyway. I don't see that as an option for what you are considering.
Good luck and don't forget, there are many members able to offer advice and possibly even practical help, don't be slow in coming forward if you need it.
Best of luck with whatever you choose to do.
I would be very wary of the E conditions route for bringing in an established design, it isn't really intended for that purpose. It offers restricted use of the aircraft for experimentation and development purposes and once 'experimentation' has been completed, it would have to go through the normal approval process anyway. I don't see that as an option for what you are considering.
Good luck and don't forget, there are many members able to offer advice and possibly even practical help, don't be slow in coming forward if you need it.
Best of luck with whatever you choose to do.
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