Clutton FRED running costs?

[BrianHunt]

I'm thinking of buying a VW powered FRED Mk2. What are the likely running costs? I have a garage to keep it in to save on hangarage.

Thanks for any help

Brian

[Chris Martyr]

I have a garage to keep it in to save on hangarage.

I was just wondering if FRED was de-riggable , but I do just remember a donkeys years old photo of Eric Clutton's Vauxhall Viva with FRED hitched onto the tow-bar .

In which case Brian , your flying will be very cheap indeed . Proper old PFA style flying with proper old PFA style costs.
Hopefully , you'll have an Inspector who is sympathetic to and understands these type aircraft . Very helpful at PtF renewal time . Otherwise , you can run her on 20/50 classic car oil and ordinary standard Bosch spark plugs , which are about a couple of quid each.
I follow the CAP-411 LAMS schedule as a guide on my aeroplane and apart from the usual pre-PtF renewal checks , she has another one each 25hrs .

I know I haven't quoted many figures as far as the number crunching goes [ but I don't want any CofA type guys to get jealous ]

I forgot to ask Brian . Is your FRED in good serviceable condition ? If so , then you should be good for years of low budget flying .
Even if she needs a bit of 'invasive surgery' , it needn't break the bank as long as you're a bit of a 'hands-on' type bloke .

[SteveSlater]

A FRED's wings fold readily, but you really need an hour of faffing (and a robust checklist) to remove and replace the tailplane and rudder if you are wanting to tow the aircraft to and from home. Also bear in mind that FRED's simple wheel bearings don't last too long if you're towing for any distance.

So saying, even if you elect to hangar the aircraft, you can cut your fees by 2/3 or more if you hangar with the wings folded. She'll burn about 3 gallons an hour. You'll log a lot of hours if you try and go long distances though!

For calm evening bumbling though, it will be a lot of fun for little money. Just what the LAA is all about!

[Chris Martyr]

FRED's simple wheel bearings don't last too long if you're towing for any distance.

Good point there Steve . Just done a quick search and most FRED's do still seem to have the old 'wheelbarrow' type wheels , which I guess just revolve on plain bearings and not taper/rollers.

@ Brian Hunt : This is not a 'dealbreaker' though , as this is perfectly adequate for FRED's t/o and landing roll.
Alastair Sutherlands beautiful , G-ORAS looks as though it may have a more contemporary fit of wheel though . Although his is a [relatively] later build .
There have been one or two FRED protagonists who have posted regularly here in the past . Rob Thomas ? [CardiffRob] whose posted a delightful photo of FRED being towed by his Mk1 Moggy Minor a couple of years back [blowed if I can find it though] .

Oh and @Brian Hunt , during my quick search , a past FRED owner looked to be a certain , 'S.Slater'..
Sorry Steve ,,,you've been rumbled..

[BrianHunt]

Thanks the helpful comments all. I'm hoping to take a look at it next week. I had a share in a Jodel D9 for several years (White Waltham's Noddy) and that was great fun to fly - and cheap.

I'll let you know what happens

Brian

[Chris Martyr]

I had a share in a Jodel D9 for several years (White Waltham's Noddy)

Nice one Brian ..

'Noddy' has been around for years , seems almost as long as Enid Blyton's character . If you are already comfortable with classic/wood/fabric/VW type aeroplanes , then a FRED should pose no problems at all .

Please come back and give us some updates on your prospective purchase .

[BrianHunt]

Unfortunately Chris, a new syndicate member pranged Noddy about three years ago but setting the throttle too high when propping single handed. Noddy nosedived, smashed the prop and shock loaded the engine, causing Noddy to be a write off.

One of the syndicate members bought Noddy off the insurance company, with the plan to restore Noddy to flying condition.

As for the Fred, the seller is not responding to my emails re a viewing. Hopefully they are not having second thoughts.

[BrianHunt]

Unfortunately Chris, a new syndicate member pranged Noddy about three years ago but setting the throttle too high when propping single handed. Noddy nosedived, smashed the prop and shock loaded the engine, causing Noddy to be a write off.

One of the syndicate members bought Noddy off the insurance company, with the plan to restore Noddy to flying condition.

As for the Fred, the seller is not currently responding to my emails re a viewing. Hopefully they are not having second thoughts.

[Bill McCarthy]

I can guarantee that you won’t see a better “Fred” than G-ORAS. Alistair flew his all the way from north of Inverness to Sywell, in his kilt ! He won best plans build home built trophy with it - thoroughly deserved.

[Chris Martyr]

@Brian , Hopefully , FRED's seller is just away on holiday at the moment .

How galling about that dear little red/yellow D9 though . Just through the unpreparedness of the pilot .
VW's are normally pretty friendly when being 'hand-propped' . Mine is certainly very docile , I'm lucky enough to be able to stand behind my prop. and keep my other hand close to the throttle .
Full marks to the guy who has opted to restore her though .

@Bill M. I had the honour of speaking to Alistair Sutherland at Cranfield many years ago now . I wanted to compare a few VP-1 builders notes . The quiet , soft spoken gentle giant just muttered , " keep it simple , don't go adding anything which isn't in the drawings". He was preaching to the converted on that one .
He was of course in his trademark 'wee kiltie' . What an amazing man ! A true 'braveheart' of the skies..

[mikeblyth]

Fair enough but would you really want a FRED

[Chris Martyr]

but would you really want a FRED

Mike old chap.. Isn't that a bit of a generalisation ?

Aeroplanes of that generation probably are a bit 'organic' . i.e. All slightly different , despite all having originated from their own respective sets of drawings .
Many Luton Minors , VP-1's , Taylor Mono's, FRED's , Turbs,,etc,,etc will have a 'similar but different' appearance . For me , that is where their appeal lies .

I'm sure that there probably are FRED's around that have become a bit tatty and dog-eared , but then you have beautiful examples like G-ORAS around too . Hopefully , the one that Brian is pursuing will turn out to be a real gem .
I would have had you down as being a bit of a 'trad'.enthusiast Mike . Your membership no. has already given you away on that one mate... ..

[Gerry Holland]

Chris
Organic is a great word for these more vintage aircraft.
I have the Corben Ace G-DACE and organic applies here too.
That's the fun. Some subtle changes keep it fresh and the confidence that it doesn't have to be shiny and new looking. Mine has an A65-8 giving 85-90 mph on 18 litres an hour and is fun to fly.
These aircraft represent the founding years of the PFA/LAA and long may they fly on.
Regards
Gerry

[mikeblyth]

Chris so I'm old.
Wouldn't call my Mono organic more Navigator after the film ( if you remember it).
Remember the adds, thank goodness I built a mono trouble free for 30 years, easy starting cold or hot
100mph 10-12lts hr with 1600VW. Which has just been rebuilt and fitted with Leburg ( great bit of kit).

[Chris Martyr]

I have the Corben Ace G-DACE

Yes , I KNOW that Gerry .

By a strange coincidence , I was shuffling through my old LA mags just a few days ago and just happened upon Apr'17's edition ...

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and guess whose Corben Baby Ace is on the cover folks,, ,,plus a lovely 6 page article . ,,,If you missed it , then order your back-issue now .. :

Also @Mike Blyth , brilliant that your Taylor Mono has been flying 30yrs Mike . You make me feel a bit 'newbie' with that .
My VP-1 has 'only' been in my life for 22yrs , 7yrs in the build and 15 fantastic years of flying,,,,and I actually enjoy it as much , probably even more than when we first 'took up' together .

Well done LAA ! Without this wonderful organisation , none of these posts would've been possible !