Clutton FRED running costs?

[Gerry Holland]

Chris
The Taylor Mono is special! My Inspector Dave Hunter built and has flown his for 40 years.
Reg. G-BEVS with VW with Leburg. It looks like a little Spitfire when on approach.
Regards
Gerry

[mikeblyth]

OK OK, then there is Chris Lodge similar time biting my tongue

[Gerry Holland]

Mike
I'm particularly thick tonight and cant make head or tail of your last entry on this subject.
Have I said something wrong? Biting tongues is not good.
Regards
Gerry

[Chris Martyr]

I think Mike is referring to Chris Lodge's lovely little Taylor Mono , G-AYSH . Which Chris built in 1971.

A regular attendee at 'my' airfields fly-in and a real beaut in her green livery and D-Day stripes. For a 'new boy' like me , it is a true honour to be able to metaphorically rub shoulders on here with such seasoned and experienced old PFA/LAA folk . I find it very inspiring to read of so many classic/traditional a/c types
[and their builder/pilots ] that are still out there , beatin' up them molecules .

But Mike , this isn't a competition to see whose JT.1 has been around the longest , so no need to bite your tongue old chap . We are 'all good friends and jolly good company' on this forum , right ?
"We izz da bruddas of da sky man",,,

,,,,and the original topic was helping brother Brian regarding the costs of operating his prospective purchase of a FRED . And I'm sure that he's managed to glean enough from all our clowning around to see that the costs of running a FRED are probably as little as most of the other little beauties of that ilk .

There is a chap who posts on here called Matthew Long , who I believe posts under the username CluttonFred . He may not have seen this thread and @Brian Hunt , if the trail hasn't gone cold on your FRED purchase , then it may be worth PM'ing Matthew .

[BrianHunt]

Great discussion here - thanks.

As an ex glider pilot, the simplicity of these small, VW powered homebuilds makes me feel more at home than some modern spam can with banks of instruments where I feel more like a machine operator than a pilot.

Ideally, I'd be buying another share in a Jodel D9, but a FRED will provide cheap fun flying. I'm hiring a PA 18 Supercub at the moment at £139/hour but that cost limits how much flying I can do.

The seller of the FRED that I'm interested is asking £4500 with new permit. I don't know how much interest there is in these basic aircraft but hope that I would be able to sell it without too much difficulty and loss in a few years if I wanted. And keeping it in a garage eliminates hanger fees

I'm back in touch with the seller and hope to view next week.

Chris, I've seen Matthew's Clutton Fred website and will PM him for further info. A very good website https://cluttonfred.info

Mike '100mph 10-12lts hr with 1600VW.' is enviable

I'm mentally moving a FRED into my garage!

[mikeblyth]

Hi Brian
Mono is a jump in and go sort of plane, not so comfortable these days as pointed out but great fun. Not sure the Fred would be as flyable. How old and how many hours. No microlights when I started building mine and
then along came Corby Starlet,Collibri,D9,Turbulent and VP1 just to mention a few.
Its good to have a discussion, we all have different views and aspirations. A lot of people would look at posts
and have an opinion but be reluctant to comment. Glass of wine or 3 is a good start.
No problem Gerry, I was speaking to Dave and he told me he got his undercarriage milled at work. I was envious.
More comments please.

Mike

[Chris Martyr]

Mono is a jump in and go sort of plane, not so comfortable these days as pointed out but great fun. Not sure the Fred would be as flyable.

OK Mike , that could be a valid point actually . I have also had the odd joker poking fun at me whilst wriggling out of G-EVPI's cockpit . I normally tell 'em that it's not getting out of it that worries me , but when I can no longer get into it !
Getting access to a high/parasol wing type does of course require a certain degree of flexibility , but there are plenty of 'chaps of a certain vintage' who have no problem with this whatsoever ! Isn't this a great incentive to carry on doing what we do for as long as we can . Why pay money to a gym when there is a proper reason to keep supple and stay active .

And once you are strapped into FRED and the engine is running , I'm sure that he will be as "flyable" as any other of that great generation of classic , traditional aeroplanes that forged the cornerstone of what we see today in the homebuilding movement.

I did attend the LAA-AGM in 2016 [ with a degree of trepidation] and the one thing about that meeting that had me spellbound was the fascinating talk by Arthur Ord-Hume . The fact that there are still aeroplanes around of the genre to which he was referring , and the people who want to build , maintain and fly them , gives me pleasure beyond words .

[mikeblyth]

Chris

Would wholeheartedly agree that having a VW type creation keeps you flexible and light. Would not agree that a Fred is as Flyable having heard stories of the climb rate etc. Missed the Aurthur Ord Hume lecture
think the weather was poor that year.
Friend John Mamby had a VP1 for many years and still rates it, great solid aeroplane
Mike

[BrianHunt]

The less you weigh, more fuel you can carry. As for being supple, climbing into Piper Cub tests that. I'm not committed to a FRED, but do want to find a simple homebuilt to own or share in the next year or two.

I have to find cheap flying or give up. So if anyone knows of one in the Suffolk area, near Ipswich, then please let me know.

[JJennings]

Good to see discussion on simple flying for fun aeroplanes, particularly VW powered.

I`m an old dinosaur - rows of very expensive RV`s do less for me than a well flown and loved Mono,VP1,Luton,Fred,Wot,Turb,D9 etc.

I was involved in the Fenland strut Flying Group.
There was a need in the strut for something members could fly often at minimum cost instead of (what was then) 5 hours a year in a hired Cessna.
They all wanted 2 seats 120kts etc. until the costs were worked out.
We bought a VP1, later adding a Luton.
We had (initially) 10 members, £300 a share. £5/month and £5/hour dry.

The VP1 was flown often by all and far by some, great fun.
For many it was their first tailwheel type as well - we did our own conversions.

Would agree that a low wing aeroplane is easier to get in and out of.
On turning 60, I found it harder to get my leg over, (my wot).
Also, when your wings (and ar**) are a few feet from the ground, x-winds are much less of a problem.

John.

[Ian Pearson]

For a FRED a side entry door can be fitted as Erics has. I have that mod fitted to mine and it is LAA approved!

[Chris Martyr]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and considering the somewhat topical carbon-monoxide issue .

I'm sure that all the contributors to this excellent discussion have checked their cockpit CO indicators ?











Footnote : Whilst it is realised that a very serious and sad incident initiated this , I do feel 'smugly exempt' as regards this one .

[BrianHunt]

Open cockpit is much more fun Although a winter Jodel D9 flight from White Waltham to Sywell at 3000' left me freezing!

Back to the FRED:

If I buy I have the option of towing it on the main wheels or loading it onto trailer. Anyone know the dimensions of a suitable trailer? This would be a 100 mile journey.

Question also sent to Matthew Long at https://cluttonfred.info

[BrianHunt]

I've just had this very fast response from Matthew and am posting it in case it's of use to others:

'...Just about any trailer wide enough for FRED's gear should do the trick, best would one with a 16' bed. Something smaller, even a horse trailer, would do in a pinch, but you might need to build a frame to support the tail'

[Chris Martyr]

So Brian ,, may one assume that FRED ownership is shortly to become a reality for you ? If that is the case , then I'm sure that the other posters here [incl. myself] will be keen to follow your progress with it .

Regarding trailers : I'm afraid I cannot be much help here . I just took the easy way out and rented a car-trailer from a place near Horley which accommodated all the 'bits' in one go for the 30 mile trip to Dunsfold in the Summer of 2004.
I wanted G-EVPI to travel in comfort on that critical first journey and not risk damaging any of the painstaking wood/fabric work that had taken place in the previous 7 yrs .

And if you have anywhere near as much fun as I have had with G-EVPI over the last 15 yrs , then I promise all the messing around will be worth it . I proved it again yesterday when taxiing in at Goodwood . The guy on the radio asked if I could park it right by the tower because [his words]

"that's officially a brilliant little aeroplane you have there Sir"...

My head nearly burst out of my leather flying hat. [ ]