LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

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Donald Walker
Posts: 188
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:35 pm

Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by Donald Walker » Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:43 am

Alan,
You may find clarification is not forthcoming. The CAA will say it needs to be approved by the French and the French will say read the our regulations: if it is valid in your country, it is valid in ours.

My interpretation of that decree is that a LAPL medical is acceptable, but a PMD is not.

My opinion is worth what you paid for it, of course. I am only interested in this subject, because I enjoy flying to France and look forward to doing so again.

If all else fails, I have a French ULM licence to fall back on, and an aircraft that fits their new 500kg category. Not even a PMD is required :D
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netsua
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Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by netsua » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:54 pm

Hi Donald, Compliments on your polyglot legal snooping on our behalf! Regarding your all-important finding of the loophole regarding implied authorisation of LAPL/NPPL in G Reg Permit aircraft, I am struggling to find the bit of text that you quote as article 4. The link you provide takes us to a decret with only three articles, none of which includes the text you quote. I am probably being a techno pygmy as usual but could you help me track down the actual text so I can wave it at any official in the unlikely event of a challenge, please? Thanks again
Stephen Austen
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netsua
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Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by netsua » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:53 pm

Found the link from Steve's earlier post

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/ ... 0036437808

Article 4 is clear enough for me. I would fly my G Reg Permit aircraft on my LAPL in France on the back of that
Stephen Austen
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Donald Walker
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Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by Donald Walker » Sat May 29, 2021 2:12 pm

I have had confirmation from the DGAC that a PMD is valid to fly a homebuilt in France.

So, I am off to France at the first opportunity, safe in the knowledge that my LAPL, NPPL SSEA and PMD are all valid to fly my homebuilt Eurostar SL there,
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mikehallam
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Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by mikehallam » Sat May 29, 2021 8:47 pm

I'd love to go as missed outlast year to Chauvigny and Covid requirements out and back still seem uncertainly specified. It's a moving target

Donald Walker
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Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by Donald Walker » Mon May 31, 2021 3:51 pm

deleted
Last edited by Donald Walker on Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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colinwilkinson
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Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by colinwilkinson » Mon May 31, 2021 4:41 pm

Very Interesting.

I shall ask more questions.

Clive
Posts: 56
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Location: Norfolk

Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by Clive » Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:58 pm

Donald Walker wrote:
Sat May 29, 2021 2:12 pm
I have had confirmation from the DGAC that a PMD is valid to fly a homebuilt in France.
Donald, could you copy that to us on here? Might be handy.

Thanks Clive
Clive James

Donald Walker
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Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by Donald Walker » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:00 pm

Clive,

I don't think it would be right to post a personal exchange of messages with the DGAC on the internet. Waving a copy at a ramp check would not do much good anyway. :-)

However, a copy is being made available to the LAA, so that they can seek confirmation from the DGAC of what I have been told. I am confident that this will be forthcoming, because my correspondent in the airspace department copied his response to 4 colleagues, at least one of whom is in the licencing department. That indicates to me that there was internal consultation on the matter.

The gist of the message is that where Article 4 says "the pilot shall hold a pilot's licence", that means a licence validated by a medical, and if a PMD validates that licence in the UK, it is also validates it in France (to fly homebuilts and the defined 'historic' aircraft).

Regards
Donald
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Clive
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Location: Norfolk

Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by Clive » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:25 pm

Great information, thanks Donald, all understood.
Regards, Clive
Clive James

Clive
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Location: Norfolk

Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by Clive » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:31 pm

So I just had a swatch at my PMD and it says:

Geographical Limitations
This declaration is not recognised internationally as an International Civil Aviation Organization medical certificate. You may not use it to fly outside of the UK, unless you have obtained advanced permission from the relevant aviation authority of the country being overflown.

So I think to fly off to France and be suitably prepared for a ramp check we will need something else.

Regards, Clive
Clive James

Donald Walker
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Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by Donald Walker » Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:16 pm

Colin,

I deleted my previous post on the DR1050, because it was an opinion, rather than fact. However, I have now found proof that the DR1050 is indeed covered by Annex 1, Para 1 a (i).

See this list published by EASA, which shows the initial design pre-dates 1.1.1955.

This confirms the aircraft can be flown in France without prior permission.

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/loda/id/ ... 036437838/
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colinwilkinson
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Re: LAA amateur built aircraft flying to France post Brexit

Post by colinwilkinson » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:41 pm

Donald,

Thank you for you efforts on this. I shall make enquiries.

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