France / NPPL SSEA

Donald Walker · Post by **Donald Walker** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:14 am

I need permission to fly in France on my NPPL SSEA. I understand applications can be made to a DGAC district office and wonder if DAC Nord, for example, would be more user friendly than the H.O. in Paris.

Any suggestions?

Donald

Cookie · Post by **Cookie** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 8:38 am

Donald,

This is something which myself and Roger Hopkinson are currently pursuing through the CAA. It is currently with CAA Policy, and we are awaiting their reply.

Regards,

Jon

Mike Mold · Post by **Mike Mold** » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:35 am

Very interesting, Jon. Is this just in reference to flights to/from France or aimed at changing the NPPL SSEA privileges to include all international flights?

Adrian Hatton · Post by **Adrian Hatton** » Fri Apr 24, 2009 12:15 pm

Jon,

Anything back from CAA Policy yet?

Adrian

Simon Clifton · Post by **Simon Clifton** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:03 pm

I'm in the same boat as Donald - is there any news on this?

Simon C
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Donald Walker · Post by **Donald Walker** » Thu Apr 30, 2009 4:04 pm

The PCS Chairman is obviously too busy to reply to enquiries. Looks like those interested in this matter will have to apply for a private audience at Shobdon.

Donald

Cookie · Post by **Cookie** » Sat May 02, 2009 5:18 pm

You will appreciate that it is not possible to get immediate answers to your question.

I have been extremely busy with work and LAA Coaching, although that has not been the reason for the lack of reply.

I was awaiting a reply from the UK Civil Aviation Authority, and also the DGAC before responding, since it would be pointless to provide you with anything but facts. As it stands, the CAA inform us that they have no objection providing this is approved by the DGAC. However, approaching the DGAC without knowing the correct person to approach would have been futile. I have been awaiting a reply to that enquiry before proceeding.

I acknowledge that you will be keen for an answer to this, and can only say that I am working on it.

Donald Walker · Post by **Donald Walker** » Sun May 03, 2009 8:56 pm

Thanks Jon,

The response I got from the DGAC was quite clear: the NPPL SSEA is not acceptable. I agree it is difficult to know who to write to since the DGAC has been split up into regions.

From: THOMASSET Yvette - DAC-N <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Flying in France
To: "Donald"
Date: Monday, 6 April, 2009, 12:55 PM

Monsieur,
En réponse à votre e-mail, j'ai le regret de vous faire savoir que les autorités françaises ne reconnaissent pas la licence nationale de pilote privé avion britannique (NPPL/A). Pour voler en France, vous devez avoir une licence PPL JAR FCL .
Salutations aéronautiques

Simon Clifton · Post by **Simon Clifton** » Tue May 05, 2009 11:41 am

Donald

My French is poor, but good enough to understand Yvette's reply, and from that it looks very clear that NPPL SSEA is not acceptable in France. Assuming Yvette is stating current DGAC policy, that leads me to two subsequent questions:

- How are other NPPL SSEA pilots doing it? (I can guess the answer)

- Is Jon seeking a change of policy from DGAC, or just to clarify the
status quo?

I was under the impression that EASA would eventually sort this out with a 'European NPPL', has anyone got a timetable for that?

Thanks

Simon C
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Donald Walker · Post by **Donald Walker** » Tue May 05, 2009 9:15 pm

Simon,

I don't know how other pilots are doing it, but the licence says it is only valid for UK registered aircraft. It does not say it is only valid in the UK

I doubt Jon is seeking to change DGAC policy, but with CAA support, it may be possible to persuade the French to accept the NPPL SSEA until the E-LPL comes into effect.

EASA seems to be postponing all its consultations by at least 90 days, so it would be difficult to predict when the E-LPL regulations will be published.

Donald

Simon Clifton · Post by **Simon Clifton** » Wed May 06, 2009 12:22 pm

Donald

I don't see the CAA as being the problem here, I'm sure you agree.

Assuming Jon is stuck or busy, what would be your next move - is there any point in speaking to CAA? (my personal dealings with CAA recently have been very good)

Simon C
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Mike Mold · Post by **Mike Mold** » Wed May 06, 2009 1:07 pm

I spoke to someone at the CAA and was advised to put my enquiry on this topic in an email to their Policy Dept. [email protected] , which I did. That was over a month ago and the silence is deafening.... Not impressed!

Donald Walker · Post by **Donald Walker** » Wed May 06, 2009 4:01 pm

Simon,

I don't think it's worth contacting the CAA, because I don't see how they can influence DGAC policy. It is not as if it can offer reciprocity.

In my view the only way to make progress on this is for the LAA to make a submission to the DGAC through the CAA.

It would need to be a comprehensive dossier (the French are keen on dossiers), which included the NPPL SSEA syllabus and an explanation of our medical declaration.

This is important, because apart from having to meet DVLA requiremets
http://www.dvla.gov.uk/media/pdf/medical/aagv1.pdf, in this country we have centralised medical records that follow the patient for life, making it difficult for a pilot to conceal from his GP any condition that might affect his performance. In my experience, the same does not apply in France, where medical records can become dispersed.

The concession would only have to be temporary, until the LPL becomes available. Something like the Belgian foreign microlight permit, which is valid for 30 days in a year would suit me fine. Might even agree to a 50 euro admin fee

Isn't it ironic that after flying around Europe for years in microlights, we upgrade to tourers and get stuck in Blighty?

Jon is our only hope: he either convinces the DGAC to accept the NPPL or convinces the CAA to allow us to train for a JAR-PPL on our new steeds.

Donald

Simon Clifton · Post by **Simon Clifton** » Wed May 06, 2009 4:49 pm

Donald

It is ironic. We are no less safe in our new aeroplanes, although I can see the reason for the change in licence approach as we cross a virtual weight boundary and the legacy reasons that brings into play.

I agree with your analysis and action plan. Given that you and me have a real need here, and shouldn't we offer to help Jon out a bit?

Anyone know how to get hold of him - is he an LAA guy, or 'just' an ordinary member?

Simon C
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Donald Walker · Post by **Donald Walker** » Wed May 06, 2009 9:41 pm

Simon,

Yes, I do think we should offer to help Jon out. You may want to see his post above and PM him, but please don't tell him what you know about me

I guess that a lot of the arguments used to gain CAA approval for the NPPL could be resurrected and presented to the DGAC. They must all be on file at NPLG Ltd.

France has its own national licence, the Brevet de Base, which has much lower requirements than the NPPL SSEA. Initially, it restricts pilots to solo flights within 30kms of the departure airfield, but with a sign-off from an instructor, iit can subsequently be extended to allow the carrying of passengers, landings at other airfields, aerobatics and night flying.

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/ac.mont.sai ... _cont.html

The AOPA France representative has been known to argue that the Brevet de Base is not noticeably more dangerous than an ICAO-compliant licence. So, if statistics are available, it should be possible use a similar argument to support our case.

Donald

Light Aircraft Association

France / NPPL SSEA

France / NPPL SSEA

NPPL SSEA in France