"Ready to fly" permit Sportcruisers?

gasax · Post by **gasax** » Mon May 04, 2009 9:04 am

Well listening more and reading more is perhaps the answer.

http://www.easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/c/c_g ... on_faq.php gives you the start of the links to the regulation and then the related decision.
http://www.easa.europa.eu/ws_prod/g/doc ... %20PtF.pdf. As far as I can see item 15 on the list is the key.

But the background is well known with EASA acutely aware that the majority of aircraft presently being built in the EU (to the US LSA rules)cannot legally be flown within the EU - hence this 'short term' fudge to pre-empt ELA1 which will 'regularise' the situation.

Pete Morris

steveneale · Post by **steveneale** » Mon May 04, 2009 9:32 am

At last something in black and white. Thank you.

Donald Walker · Post by **Donald Walker** » Mon May 04, 2009 10:41 am

I'm sorry that my reference to Decision 2007/6/R of the Executive Director of EASA dated 4 April 2007, GM 21A 701 (a) example 15 : "For non-commercial flying activity on individual non-complex aircraft or types for which the Agency agrees that a certificate of airworthiness or restricted certificate of airworthiness is not appropriate” was too colourful.

Donald

ben.fitzgerald · Post by **ben.fitzgerald** » Tue May 05, 2009 6:34 pm

Hopefully I can add a little more light here. EASA are a pretty progressive bunch, and I believe should have our full support. Currently they are unable to directly engage with the LAA due to their remit only to work with the national official aviation authority (CAA in our case), but that is due to change with the ratification of the ELA rules.

Currently aircraft are being issued with a two year permit to fly, on the basis that this will then dovetail into ELA1 once finalised and ratified.

With the SportCruiser, the latest news (I was in Prague last week catching up on this), is that all is on track for the permit grant this summer. This will indeed allow for sales of SportCruiser aircraft ready to fly in the UK & across Europe. The quickbuild kit will still be offered alongside this.

There is some internal debate at the moment as to the choice of either EASA Permit to fly or issue of EASA Restricted Type Certification for the SportCruiser - the latter would be more compatible with club operation as it is in the UK, and flight training; so it may be that this is what is opted for. Under the RTC, owners can still enjoy a high level of owner maintanance if they like under Part M (where responsibility is largely on the shoulders of the operator).

Current LAA registered aircraft are unlikely to be able to convert to the ELA permit directly, certainly not before the LAA assumes its likely mantle of engineering and being the UK's representative body for EASA.

I've done a more comprehensive write up of the EASA system under our post Friedrichshafen write up, which is available in the File Section of the SportCruiser UK owners group if anyone wants to read this.

Whilst I'm not 100% sure about my information - especially as the situation is somewhat fluid with regards to EASA. However, I had a good chat with the EASA chaps whilst at the recent Aero Expo and what I have written is based on my best understanding from that.

Regards
Ben

Simon Clifton · Post by **Simon Clifton** » Tue May 05, 2009 8:35 pm

Ben,

Okay, that is a bit clearer. What are the timescales, and who is it that decides? Is there any scope for discussion (delay) or appeal (rejection) from anybody?

Simon C
~~~~~~

ben.fitzgerald · Post by **ben.fitzgerald** » Wed May 06, 2009 2:04 pm

Simon,

Timescale is currently looking to be this June/July for the EASA approval. We've heard back that on the SC, EASA are happy with the submisisons, and senior management are going to be meeting with them soon as well.

So far as appeals / risk of rejection etc. it is not really a matter of this. The EASA engineers are quite thorough before granting approvals, and also have to conduct a factory visit before granting approval, to check quality systems etc. The engineering submissions have been given the OK (which is partly thanks to the thoroughness of the LAA previously on this), and if there are any issues that come up as a result of the factory visit then the factory will need to put any required changes in place before the grant of the Permit / RTC.

Our expectation is that EASA will be impressed with the factory, as quality standards are high, and there has just been a major streamlining of the production line to make it one of the most efficient light aircraft manufacturing plants in the world. The Czechs have been building aircraft at Kunovice for many decades now, and the knowledge and experience of the engineers is immense.

So to sum up, we don't see any possibility of rejection, and have every expectation that the permit / RTC issue will run to timetable.

Regards
Ben

AlanR · Post by **AlanR** » Wed May 06, 2009 3:34 pm

Maybe its me but I cannot for the life of me see the advantage of an RTF (ready to fly) EASA plane to the ordinary private flyer when you can save money by building it yourself. Lets face it a QB kit is not that hard to do.
The only slight advantage may be to sell it to try and sell to training schools but would it be financially viable for a flying school to get rid of their 20,000 hr 152's and replace them at 3 or 4times the price with Sportcruisers that only have an airframe life of 5000hrs at which point the plane's life is over and therefore worthless.

Alan Radford.

Nick Allen · Post by **Nick Allen** » Wed May 06, 2009 3:47 pm

Lets face it a QB kit is not that hard to do.

Perhaps not, but you do need somewhere to do it! (And not everyone has...

)

ben.fitzgerald · Post by **ben.fitzgerald** » Wed May 06, 2009 7:57 pm

Re RTF's Vs Build Your Own - personally I think building your own aircraft is a great experience. It does save some money (though by the time you price your labour at say EUR 5 per hour and add paint, sundries etc. I think the saving is marginal) - however, most of all it saves time - some people just want ot be able to enjoy the flying of an aircraft and do not have the luxury of the time to build it. I guess horses for courses on that front.

Re replacing a C152 etc. The SportCruiser is ideal for this. Note that the US currently have a limit on life of LSA airframes, which is likely to be reviewed as the LSA fleet matures, which is not an issue here in the UK. However, if we were to look at the running costs of an SportCruiser vs a C-152, then if you consider fuel alone, then for example over 5000 hours, an SC would save approximately £50K over this period, not to mention giving students something decent and modern to fly.

Regards
Ben

martin payne · Post by **martin payne** » Wed May 06, 2009 8:11 pm

Is there a new website available yet for the SC in the UK?
I am looking to build soon and would like to know where/who to contact for advice/questions..
Would it be yourself (Ben) that I should now contact?
all comments appreciated..........

Martin..

ben.fitzgerald · Post by **ben.fitzgerald** » Thu May 07, 2009 9:34 am

Hi Martin - There is a new site for the UK which is under construction at the moment (taking a bit of time it seems unfortunately).

In the mean time do feel free to call or email - our contact details are:

[email protected]
Tel. (Office) 0207 536 6356 (should be answered pretty much any time).

There are some aspects that are still being finalised, but the kits and RTF aircraft are in good supply now. There are also a couple of kits in the UK which people have purchased but are not moving ahead on build with (eg where their circumstances have changed) - happy to put you in touch etc.

If you're also not yet aware of it, there is a very active builders and owners group in the UK, which is independent and full of advice and banter. You can find this at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sportcruiser I'm certain that just about any build or flight question can be answered there.

Regards
Ben