Training in Permit Aircraft - clarification or change?

[Trevor Harvey]

as long as the flight lasted more than an hour then could the instructor be P1 for the central hour and so avoid tailwheel specifics.

The way it was put to me, & I just wanted clarification, was that the Captain has to be appointed before the a/c takes off, & as the person responsible for the conduct of the flight, shall remain so until landing.
If it turned to worms, who do the authorities hang the blame on?
Point 2.
We exercised PFLs during the "training". The instructor closed the throttle at his discretion therefore taking the responsibility that if the PFL became an actual FL at the last minute he should be capable of taking control & landing the a/c wherever it happened to be, possibly dead stick. Which he had not had the differences training to do.

[Mike Cross]

Jon Cooke


Regarding your statement " ' one hour flight with an instructor' you are PUT " , My instructor says to enter P1/S in my logbook, who is correct ?

Regards
Les

Hi Les
The rules (for a JAA License) are in [url=http://www.jaa.nl/publications/jars/607069.pdfJAR–FCL 1.080 [/url]which includes

(iii) The holder of an instructor
rating may log as pilot-in-command all
flight time during which he acts as an
instructor in an aeroplane.
(iv) The holder of an examiner’s
authorisation may log as pilot-incommand
all flight time during which he
occupies a pilot’s seat and acts as an
examiner in an aeroplane.

and

(5) PICUS (Pilot-in-command under
supervision)
Provided that the method of supervision
is acceptable to the Authority, a co-pilot may
log as PIC flight time flown as PICUS, when
all of the duties and functions of PIC on that
flight were carried out, such that the
intervention of the PIC in the interest of safety
was not required.

Note the use of the word co-pilot.

(2) Co-pilot flight time
The holder of a pilot licence occupying a
pilot seat as co-pilot may log all flight time as
co-pilot flight time on an aeroplane on which
more than one pilot is required under the type
certification of the aeroplane, or the
regulations under which the flight is
conducted.

As your kitfox is a single-pilot a/c your instructor is giving you wrong advice.
PIC and PICUS replaced the terms P1 and PI/S some time ago though I confess to still using P1.

WRT who is PIC Art 35 of the ANO lays down the law and makes it clear that you are required to record

(a) the date, the places at which the holder embarked on and disembarked from the
aircraft and the time spent during the course of a flight when he was acting in
either capacity;

(The capacities are either as a member of the flight crew or as a trainee)

It's clear to me from the above that there is nothing wrong with two pilots each logging part of the flight time as PIC in a single-pilot aircraft.

[Cookie]

Thanks Mike.

Jon Cooke

Regarding your statement " ' one hour flight with an instructor' you are PUT " , My instructor says to enter P1/S in my logbook, who is correct ?

Regards
Les

Your instructor is wrong

The instructor must act as PIC and the student as PUT for any training, including the hour for licence revalidation. PIC/US may only be logged upon completion of a successful flight test in a single pilot aircraft. If you are to log PIC, then the instructor has not assisted in any way, and logs nothing.

It's clear to me from the above that there is nothing wrong with two pilots each logging part of the flight time as PIC in a single-pilot aircraft.

The instructor, in the example given, may not log P1 since they are not entitled to act as P1. This is because the aircraft is a tailwheel aircraft, and they have not completed differences training.

Regards,

Jon

[Mike Cross]

I agree Jon. You can't log PIC if you are not qualified to be PIC.

I was responding to Trevor Harvey's suggestion

The way it was put to me, & I just wanted clarification, was that the Captain has to be appointed before the a/c takes off, & as the person responsible for the conduct of the flight, shall remain so until landing.

There is IMHO no problem at all with two pilots who are qualified to act as PIC each logging part of the time in a single flight as PIC.