Activ8

Trevor Lyons · Post by **Trevor Lyons** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:47 am

Being a sucker for anything that can improve engine efficiency, I am considering buying a bottle of "Activ8", which claims to be an effective friction reducer. See: http://www.simplan.co.uk/index.html

Some years ago I tried in my car engine some Slick-50, an additive with tiny PTFE (Teflon) particles in suspension. Although I thought I perceived a difference (the placebo effect?), USA government scientists found that Slick-50 has zero benefits but can block oilways. Pennsylvania State prosecuted Slick-50 for making false claims.

I recently spoke to an Activ8 salesman who declared that, unlike Slick50, Activ8 has no solids in suspension which adhere to any surface; rather, this product is "a complex oil based additive" that forms a strong bond only to metal, "creating an extremely low friction surface". Essentially, Activ8 seems to be a boundary-layer lubricant. At £75 per litre, Activ8 is very expensive; but what (almost) convinces me is the amazing practical demonstration that I saw; and this demo also appears on YouTube: http://www.simplan.co.uk/video.html

Also, two "testimonials" impress me: first, the great motorcycle racer Phil Read says the stuff worked on his BMW bike; and secondly, an NSU Ro80 owner says it gave a "definite improvement". I am tempted to try some Activ8 first in my Yamaha TRX850 bike. If that yields positive results, then I'll consider it for my aircraft. As my little plane has a wankel engine which inevitably runs hotter than a piston engine, Activ8 may prove to be just the ticket!.

I suspect Activ8 would benefit most aero-engines, particularly 2-strokes and "aircooled lumps".

Alan George · Post by **Alan George** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 5:15 pm

A BMW boxer bike has a dry clutch so no problem but the TRX 850 has a wet clutch, it runs in the engine oil. Do you really want a friction modiifer in there?

Trevor Lyons · Post by **Trevor Lyons** » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:41 pm

Alan George wrote:A BMW boxer bike has a dry clutch so no problem but the TRX 850 has a wet clutch, it runs in the engine oil. Do you really want a friction modiifer in there?

From the Activ8 website FAQs page:
Q: Will ACTIV8 Friction Reducer cause my wet clutch to slip in my motorcycle?
A:No. Because ACTIV8 contains no solids such as PTFE, Zinc, Silicone, Molybdinum, etc., ACTIV8 doesn't coat and therefore will not interfere with fibre, cork or kevlar (all mineral surfaces OK!) working surfaces. ACTIV8 Friction Reducer only works when the working surfaces are metal to metal and will not negatively effect non-metal working surfaces.

Trevor Lyons · Post by **Trevor Lyons** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 1:12 am

Some more thoughts: generally speaking, it may be a good idea to be sceptical about claims for engineering "snake-oils" and nostrums. After all, if these things are so good, why don't manufacturers use them? Websites such as : http://www.skepdic.com/slick50.html make this point clearly. However, there are things that work well but which still take ages to be adopted, for example:

(1) Thermostatically-controlled electric cooling fans are now fitted to almost every car; but for years cars had fixed fans, or at best, viscous-clutch fans. Motorists who wanted their old car to reach an efficient working temperature had to fit a Kenlowe fan.

(2) All pilots know from mag checks that a piston engine runs better with more than one spark plug; yet this simple (and very cheap) concept is largely ignored both by both motorbike and car makers. Why?

(3) Carburettors are fine for a cheap moped; but it is astounding that so many GA aero-engines still do not have fuel-injection. Instead of having automatically accurate fuel metering, many aircraft still force pilots to fiddle with with carb-heat and mixture controls. It's such bad luck if your engine stops thru carb-icing! Even "modern" engines such as the Rotax 912 and the Jabiru still use carburettors! Why?

So, my point is: just because an engineering innovation has yet to be widely adopted, that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad idea!

Bill McCarthy · Post by **Bill McCarthy** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:28 am

I had a MK2 Lotus Cortina that had the fan blades removed. As long as you kept moving there was enough flow through the radiator to maintain the correct temperature. If I got stuck in traffic for a while it was wind down windows and but the heater blower full on - great on a hot summers day !

Andrew Leak · Post by **Andrew Leak** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 12:37 pm

Hi Trevor,
I'm afraid that the answer to your all your questions are not that simple as they seem. Yes I know some are cost related, such as the twin spark plugs - this would not be that easy to do in the production process and keep the vehicle affordable, bigger distributor, space to put it and all the other bits. However since cars use low voltage spark units it is more than possible unless room is the issue. I mean if you had a V6, that's 12 plugs! I can't even see the spark plugs on my car and it's a 4 cylinder. Engines now have variable valve timing and all hosts of other advances in power enhancement, but would you want all this 'stuff' upfront on your light aircraft if it meant that you were having to pay heavily for the complicated equipment to be serviced every 50 hours?

Carbs are cheap! That's what I am led to believe, however, some would argue that their Marvel carb just cost them an arm and a leg to replace - well that's because it's got aircraft as it's application. Carbs are simple to fit and simple to service and don't need fancy high pressure fuel systems to work. That's why we are where we are with 2 stroke mopeds and 4 stroke aircraft engines, it's reliable and cheap and no silly emissions restrictions (yet). Cars however, have an expectation on environmental emissions now and wouldn't survive the strict bureaucracy if they had carburettors fitted. So there you have it, old technology will be with us for a while longer I 'm afraid, but as it works - although not as efficiently as we would like, why bin it?

And yes Activ8 does work, a 10 year old vehicle came in with high mileage (150k) for an emissions check at our testing station and has had this stuff in for about the last 100,000 miles - it's emissions were that of a newer car. His Catalytic converter and injectors were the originals on the car too! He said he was getting 48 mpg (av) on this 1.6 8v petrol engine..go figure!

Bill Scott · Post by **Bill Scott** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:55 pm

Trevor,
If I were running a 912, Jabiru or HKS engine then I'd probably use the stuff. However, I run a Rotax 503 2stroke.
You mention use in 2strokes..... How? The lubrication of the crank etc is by the fuel/oil mix.
Or are there different 2stroke designs?

Bill McCarthy · Post by **Bill McCarthy** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:08 pm

The website gives the quantity to add to your premix.

Bill Scott · Post by **Bill Scott** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:26 pm

Cheers Bill,

That video gives food for thought.

I wonder what the implications are regarding carbon build-up in 2strokes?

Bill McCarthy · Post by **Bill McCarthy** » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:16 pm

I'm going down south to Invernes on Monday - there is an outlet there that has it. I'm going to try it for a while in my 447 to see what happens. I should imagine that it can be added to the oil reservoir for oil injection 2-strokes as well.

Trevor Lyons · Post by **Trevor Lyons** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:48 am

Andrew Leak wrote:...the twin spark plugs - this would not be that easy to do in the production process and keep the vehicle affordable, bigger distributor, space to put it and all the other bits. "

First. a number of cars (eg Alfa Romeo Twin-Spark) and bikes (eg Honda VT500) DO use twin plugs, but still surprisingly few. It's neither that difficult nor that expensive; especially as a single coil (albeit a higher spec one) can be used for both plugs in one cylinder. This is done by having the first plug "earth" to the head, with the current returning across the second plug cap and back up the lead. I predict that the advantages in performance, economy and emissions will make twin-spark engines increasingly common.

Carbs are cheap, ... simple to fit and simple to service and don't need fancy high pressure fuel systems to work. ...That's why we are where we are with 2 stroke mopeds and 4 stroke aircraft engines, it's reliable and cheap ...(Carbs) works - although not as efficiently as we would like, why bin it?

As I said, fine for mopeds. But when an aero-engine costs more than a family runabout, surely the buyer is entitled to something that is efficient, modern and not potentially lethal. My Midwest wankel engine was originally fitted with simple Tillotson "lawn-mower" carbs that never worked properly. Now it has a relatively simple fuel-injection system (based, I'm told, on a Triumph TR7 unit); and it's excellent - smooth throughout the range, economical, and with no carb-heat or mixture nonsense.

Back to topic: I am heartened by the handful of positive reports on this thread of experiences with Activ8; and I'm definitely going to use this stuff. I have had discussions with manufacturers and they responded knowledgeably to my questions. They are a family firm based in the UK (originally in Staffordshire, now in Scotland) and they seem to know what they are doing.

Bill McCarthy · Post by **Bill McCarthy** » Sun Jul 18, 2010 10:59 am

I suppose that the problem with fitting that extra spark plug its a case of running out of room to fit it, especially if there are four valves per cylinder.