LAA Aircraft ID plates

[Nick Allen]

Not to distract from the fascinating metallurgical discussion...but I can't help wondering how many times the fireproofness of this plate has actually been useful! I'm working on the hypothesis that if the plane has destroyed itself so much that the plate is the only identifier, then by the time the plate is found, they'll have probably worked out the plane's identity anyway by other means... And if such a plate been ever so slightly useful once in, say, 20 years, is that a good enough reason to have to carry one all the time?

[macconnacher]

I am sure it was written at the dawn of civil aviation in 1919 when it was a reasonable requirement given the aircraft at the time and the memories of flaming crashes in the Great War. Remember Mick Mannock VC always carried a revolver in order to kill himself incase of being shot down in flames, he was petrified of falling from a great height in a flaming aircraft.

The plate is the aeronautical equivilent of Dog Tags which soldiers wear around their neck one of which stays with your body and the other is nailed to your coffin or grave marker.
What a pleasent subject to discuss on a Thursday afternoon.

I doubt whether ICAO would ever abandon such a requirement but I have noticed that BA seem to not have an engraved SS plate these days on the A319s -it looks plastic but I might be wrong. It is still useful for metal aircraft when they do a full paint strip and forget which letters to paint on in the sp[ray shop.

Perhaps Nigel can check one of his 767s?

[J.C.]

So can we burn a plane now to stop the debate?

[macconnacher]

John Cook
We have done this to death .
I agree and since we have so many RVs one less would not be noticed and after a random selection by the membership G-NADZ has been selected.

As an RV man by your logo do you know whos aircraft this is?


Only kidding!

Please Mr Dean can you finish this thread as I should be working and not checking the BB.

[Ian Melville]

Not really Stainless is 2750 F

I was using your previous post as refrence

Melting point of Al = 660 degrees C - Stainless Steel 1510 degrees C

[tim]

Agreed.. calorific value may have been a red herring... nevertheless just to throw a burning torch into the Avgas/Mogas energy debate Avgas liberates 46 megajoules per kilo during combustion versus 45.8 megajoules per litre for Mogas.

Thus for any particular burning aircraft the wreckage would most likely reach a higher temperature than its equivalent motor car.

Maybe the knowledge that this aluminium ID plate would not likely survive was the driving force behind Mode S so the authorities can track the last moments of the flight and know exactly what the aircraft was.

So really we could just all fit stainless plates instead of mode S?

[J.C.]

Stuart, I seem to recall G-NADZ doesn't have a plate.
(as the first of the breed ,it was built light,its only the pilot that's heavy.)

[macconnacher]

May I suggest 1 slice of toast less with your breakfast each day and fit the plate. The CAA monitor this site.

Good morning John. I know by answering this in the morning you are conspiring to keep me watching the BB when I should be working.

Have a good weekend and keep flying the RV.

[J.C.]

Looks like NO toast..why do you think I want the bonfire?

EDIT.. the CAA can monitor what they like, they can't read anyway, they never read our input to " consultations".

[mikeblyth]

All these planes bursting into flames has me worried. What if!! You landed in a vat of acid. Perhaps plastic would be better

[Frank Parker]

Not really Stainless is 2750 F

I was using your previous post as refrence

Melting point of Al = 660 degrees C - Stainless Steel 1510 degrees C

And Stuart is correct in both posts, 1510 degrees C is 2750 degrees F.

Frank Parker, who is a lot more used to old fashioned mensuration these days! The local TV station is giving the OAT as 85F today!

[Ian Melville]

Doh, Sorry Stuart didn't see the change in units, despite being careful as to what I read from the specs

[macconnacher]

Here is the last word on the subject and the Quote from ICAO Annex 7 so now you have all the information.

I was wrong there is no defined melting point of the plate nor is it defined as stainless.

Taken directly from the current issue of Annex 7, Definitions:

Fireproof material. A material capable of withstanding heat as

well as or better than steel when the dimensions in both

cases are appropriate for the specific purpose.

8. IDENTIFICATION PLATE

An aircraft shall carry an identification plate inscribed with at

least its nationality or common mark and registration mark.

The plate shall be made of fireproof metal or other fireproof

material of suitable physical properties and shall be secured to

the aircraft in a prominent position near the main entrance or,

in the case of an unmanned free balloon, affixed conspicuously

to the exterior of the payload.