"Take Off Tax" for GA?

Mike Fawdrey · Post by **Mike Fawdrey** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 11:17 am

Recentlyone of my friends who has had mode S fitted called an ATC unit to ask for cooperation for a test flight (to check out the
ode S) but was told they were unable to assist. On being asked where he could make a test flight to check out this expensive white elephant was then told no radar station within 50 miles had the relevant test gear.

He was not amused to say the least, but this is britain

cardiffrob · Post by **cardiffrob** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 12:31 pm

I drive 757/767s out of Cardiff. When I went 'upstairs' to have a chat they told me that they didn't have Mode-S readout from their radar head.

Dave Hall · Post by **Dave Hall** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 1:27 pm

Anyone out there got an SBS-1 from Kinetic Avionics? That gives readout from Mode-S. We had a set running on ther YES/PFA stand at Fairford last June and it was showing a Russian helicopter on the site. Not sure why they had the transponder switched on, though.

It's quite an intriguing unit, we were watching aircraft approaching and departing Heathrow, holding at OCK, and it's able to give flight numbers etc. I believe if it's programmed with info from a particular website, it can give even more details about the plane. Who knows, maybe it tells you the pilot's name, too!

http://www.kinetic-avionics.co.uk

Steve Brown · Post by **Steve Brown** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:03 pm

sounds a terrorist's dream

steveneale · Post by **steveneale** » Sat Jan 19, 2008 2:19 pm

Current Mode S ground Radar is used only in LTCC and some En route. CAA said it is planned for some other En Route and Terminal Control Centres (all Class A stuff).

LARS mode S won't be mandated before 2012 so don't hold your breath.

Even after 2012 I understand that airport approach radars will only be upgraded if the operator decides they can afford it.

Until then these things are expensive mode Cs.

Who knows what will happen now after the US ADS-B announcements.

Dave Hall · Post by **Dave Hall** » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:17 pm

sounds a terrorist's dream

Maybe - it will also give a bearing and range (for your missile system?).

Andrew Leak · Post by **Andrew Leak** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:36 pm

Just rattled through 'The Loop' today and I noticed an article similar to the one we're discussing here. It's on page 7 entitled 'The Gain in Maine is Mainly from the plane'. This outlines 'use' taxes imposed on 'business' pilots for bringing their alien (non purchased in the state of Maine) aircraft into the state for 20 days a year in which pilots were charged 'thousands' of dollars in extra local taxes. The interesting bit was how they managed it..... "...the ease of tracking private pilots being cited as the reason."

Well, if they can do in the States, then just wait ..... are they doing this without Mode S ? I think they are. It could be more of a reality than we think for the UK. Train spotting it is then!

John Price · Post by **John Price** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:18 pm

For those saddies that want to know.

I have been informed that there are 31 SSR sites that currently cover the UK.

The coverage above 1000' is, and I quote "fairly extensive if not total " but below 1000' is" patchy in some areas".

The 25 sites operated by NATS are currently being upgraded to accept Mode S data, by Racal Electronics. When you consider how much controlled airspace there is it would be fair to assume that the Mode S coverage will be fairly extensive too.

So if we are going to be charged the system will be in place to track us if, as I think we believe, that Mode S SSR carriage will eventually become a reality.

Graham Newby · Post by **Graham Newby** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 8:30 am

Gents
To bring the topic back to the original subject, the consultation is now out and it seems we have managed to persuade the Treasury to exclude aircraft under 5700kgs from this new tax. Full details will be in the next magazine and on the website but it is interesting to note that the LAA were the only non trade body to be involved in the pre consultation.

Graham

Mike Mold · Post by **Mike Mold** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 11:07 am

Well done Graham. LAA leading the way, again!

steveneale · Post by **steveneale** » Fri Feb 08, 2008 12:37 pm

Great news Graham and thanks to you and your team for your work.

MikeGodsell · Post by **MikeGodsell** » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:25 pm

HM treasury are now asking for responses to their consultation document, see:

http://www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/consultat ... n_duty.cfm

Under this proposal some of us could be paying two lots of tax: Fuel tax & aircraft tax.