Anti Terrorism

Trevor Harvey · Post by **Trevor Harvey** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:35 pm

Has anyone had any dealings with the police with reference to having to telephone your local police station prior to departing with the intention of landing at a different airfield, regardless of how close/far?
Our strip owner was approached by a policeman & informed that this is soon to become law.

macconnacher · Post by **macconnacher** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:11 pm

PC Plod has struck again.
The police have never been knowledgable on aviation matters so I would not worry

Trevor Harvey · Post by **Trevor Harvey** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:18 pm

Be interesting to see if Anstruther Cop shop could cope with 30+ phone calls after a flyout barbie, all going home to different places!!

mike newall · Post by **mike newall** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:47 am

This may be linked with the recent change at Prestwick.

Apparently you have to show passport ID at Prestwick even if arriving from the UK. They are citing anti terrorism.

This is at an airport where dozens of pseudo military flights stage through every week using 'commercial' aircraft carrying all sorts of interesting things.

Pure Dead Brilliant indeed

Nigel Ramsay · Post by **Nigel Ramsay** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 9:52 am

Presumably this is another step toward 'The Toilet Monitor'!

Seriously however, we were visted at our strip in the early days (20 years ago!) and they were entirely ignorant of what was and wasn't allowed. On their first visit they were looking at whether to prosecute us for using an aircraft other than on a designated landing field.....

We then had Customs, who informed us that we should put a gate at the other end of the 70 acre field to stop uninvited drug dealers (actually sensible stuff to be fair).

Now though, with anti-terrorism laws being cited every time plod, or any other agency wants to monitor us, it's worrying to say the least.

Hopefully, this is someone assuming too much (local) authority?

steveneale · Post by **steveneale** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:24 pm

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

Planemike · Post by **Planemike** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:24 pm

SteveNeale wrote:"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

Wise words indeed, pity more in the West who value their freedoms do not take note of them....

Planemike

Trevor Harvey · Post by **Trevor Harvey** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:36 pm

Sad state of afairs that Plod has been given so much power that they don't know what to do with it.
Perhaps they should monitor us with GPS tracking? Then if someone with more than two brain cells gets into government they could allow us to use their system for TCAS purposes. But that would be an advantage, not allowed, classified!!

Alan George · Post by **Alan George** » Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:00 pm

On Sunday I flew into Redhill and was met on shutdown by 3 officers of the Surrey police who were on anti-terrorist duty. They asked me for ID but as I was not carrying anything official they asked me name, address, point of departure etc that I presume someone is verifying this week. One of the officers was a dog handler, those of us with fabric covered aircraft should be aware that the dog had a tendency to jump up on the airframe whilst sniffing for explosives, drugs or whatever. I presume it was because of the proximity to Gatwick and was done in a friendly manner but I was already a bit stressed ensuring my navigation was OK in the Heathrow-Gatwick corridor that is alien to someone used to the open airspace here in the West.

Safe flying, Alan.

steveneale · Post by **steveneale** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:22 am

What did they say when you jumped on the bonnet of their car?

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:04 am

Though there will be those who see no issue with this type of activity, personally I find it unacceptable. The police should have a valid reason to stop and question you, and going about your lawful business in your aircraft should not mean that you are automatically suspect. Three policeman wasting their time and our money to question innocent pilots - is it any wonder criminal and anti-social behaviour is rife. Terrorist paranoia rules OK.

tnowak · Post by **tnowak** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:18 am

The powers that be now consider "uncontrolled aviation" to be a gap in the UK's perimeter defences. By "uncontrolled" I mean the type of flying we do.
It wasn't that many years ago that, upon arrival from abroad at Gatwick/Heathrow etc., you only needed to show the colour of your passport to be let through Passport Control. If it was a UK passport the chances are it wasn't even looked at further.
Now each passport is scanned/read electronically and the Passport Control officer waits to see what pops up on his computer screen before you are allowed to proceed to the baggage area......
I suspect we will all be seeing more frequent visits by the boys in blue/ HM Borders and Protection personnel.
Tony Nowak

mike.fortescue · Post by **mike.fortescue** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:01 am

tnowak wrote:The powers that be now consider "uncontrolled aviation" to be a gap in the UK's perimeter defences. ..

It wasn't that many years ago that, upon arrival from abroad at Gatwick/Heathrow etc., you only needed to show the colour of your passport to be let through Passport Control. ..
Tony Nowak

er, I'm not sure that "the powers that be" (generally, whoever 'they' are) do; but the Government-appointed but independent legal scrutiniser of anti-terrorist legislation, Lord Carlile, seems to have 'a thing' about it. He mentions the supposed threat from small airfields in the annual reports which he is required to submit, but IIRC in each he confesses that he has seen no evidence to support his concerns.

I have neither seen nor heard nothing from any current UK Government Minister, official nor agency to suggest that this is Government policy or attitude. To keep it so, make sure that your club/airfield makes and maintains good relations with your local Constabulary, Borders Agency, HMRC office, etc, folk (MP, Councillors, ..) - invite them along, take them flying, .. If you are not (also) in AOPA (why not ? - they have the best access to lobby Government on these issues), find someone who is and ask to see article on recent Laddingford incident in August issue of 'GA' ..

[my first, Board of Trade (pre-CAA), UK PPL could be used -as- a passport (for a small extra fee and the supply of a photo)! For re-entry to UK, at least; but I assume that because facility was offered other (possibly other European) countries border control points would also have accepted it as an entry document]

Nigel Hitchman · Post by **Nigel Hitchman** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:16 am

I agree with Brian's point of view on this.
I seem to remember with all the fuss about "stop and Search" of people in London, the Police had to have a good reason to stop people and all of this had to be documented. If they are going to start doing this at airfields, surely we pilots have at least the same rights as dodgy youths wandering the streets of London at night!
They will probably say this wasnt a stop and search, just a friendly conversation, but if so they have no right to ask for id or your name etc.
Maybe they were really waiting for someone else and had a tip off or intelligance that something was happening, then all well and good, hope they caught them. But if they didnt they shouldnt be wasting your time, or our taxpayers money, should have been outcatching criminals or patrolling unruelly areas instead.

mike.fortescue · Post by **mike.fortescue** » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:30 am

mike.fortescue wrote:
.. .. If you are not (also) in AOPA .. find someone who is and ask to see article on recent Laddingford incident in August issue of 'GA' ..

oops, sorry, the October issue ..