Proxy voting

Gary M · Post by **Gary M** » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:25 pm

Is it currently the case that only those present at the AGM are able to vote on the issues? Is Proxy voting allowed?

John Brady · Post by **John Brady** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:05 pm

No - Rule 17g in the LAA Rules - on the website click About the LAA and then at the bottom of the page Rules

Gary M · Post by **Gary M** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:35 pm

Well I think it is wrong to stipulate that proxy votes will not be accepted. The turnout to the meeting is so low that any old rubbish can be passed there.
Please would anyone second a motion allowing proxy votes? Let's change this rule so that we have a more democratic association. The EAA allows proxy voting and declares it is a right for all members to vote on matters that affect the EAA, whether or not they can attend the Meeting.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:17 am

It is about time that the LAA proved itself to be concious of the environmental impact of up to 8000 ( 2000 if we all share) cars potentially driving up to 3-400 miles round trip just to put ones hand up once or twice and either encurage proxy or postal voting.

One for the new CEO perhaps

Tony Harrison-Smith · Post by **Tony Harrison-Smith** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:08 am

If the amalgamation of the BMAA and LAA goes through (I hope it does) then the new association will have to accept proxy voting as us BMAA members will not want to lose that option.

Tony

flyin'dutch' · Post by **flyin'dutch'** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:43 pm

I would hope it changes before the merger; a few people would be pretty upset if they could not have their say on this important matter other than by having to turn up for an AGM/EGM.

eyesoar · Post by **eyesoar** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:52 pm

Having had recent cause to read through the Companies Act 2006 I think the LAA (a limited company) may have difficulty in disallowing proxy voting. The principle is enshrined in the C/Act so that the rights of "members" of companies to vote is protected. Members actually have a lot of rights but I know that most haven't a clue. Conduct at general meetings is also tightly regulated - though only by specification. Again, unless some of the (what shall we call them) 'rebels' know their rights, the status quo can often be difficult to de-stabilise - because they're not going to help you do the de-stabilising by tutoring. I daresay someone on here knows a lot more about the legalities of Company Admin than I do though.

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:57 pm

Eyesoar, the LAA is not a limited company. The association's finances are handled by PFA Ulair ltd, but the association itself is a separate entity.
The main flaw with proxy votes is that you cast your vote before you have heard the debate, and a compelling argument might well have sayed your view had you been there to hear it. Yes you can have a debate od sorts on the BB, but many issues have subtle nuances that you can be unaware of, it isn't always as simple as do you want Labour or Conservative.
Am I against Proxy voting? No I am not. If a motion to amend the rules to allow proxy voting is tabled then I look forward to listening to both sides of the debate before making my mind up.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:29 pm

Hi Brian, I have just thought of a medium where the pros and cons of any issue could be aired and read by all the membership so as to enable proxy voting.

A Monthly magazine

I guess that deadlines might be thought to be an problem but unless issues are being brought to the agm late for “whatever” reason this should not be a problem.

Please support the enfranchisement of the majority and don’t ignore them with the somewhat upsetting view that has at times comes across that non appearance at the agm means that members just don’t care enough.

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:20 pm

And people say I'm a sarky b******d!
I have agreed that a debate of sorts is possible in the mag but it does have its limitations. If we take a particularly divisive topic, I think there was one on here recently, am I to publish every single letter and view that I receive on it? Maybe take twenty pages of the mag so that every off the wall view is expressed? If I make a selection of the views for publication, will I not be accused of showing bias, trying to sway the vote one way or the other? Heads you win, tails I lose I suspect.
And using the BB also has its faults, it simply isn't sufficiently representative because so few members use it. Now, if you want to argue that the BB is representative, and if members choose not to use it then they are willingly giving up their right to have their views heard, does that not sound rather similar to the argument that those who do not wish to attend an AGM are doing likewise?
Incidentally I am not sure that proxy voting is the correct nomenclature for what is being suggested here. A proxy vote is one you give to another person to lodge on your behalf, you could for instance give me your proxy for me to vote as you wished, or for me to vote as I saw fit, me having to attend the AGM to use it. I think what is really intended here is Postal voting.
Proxy or postal, I am prepared to be swayed by sound debate, but as somebody who has attended AGMs for many years I am currently more in favour of holding our AGM in conjunction with a major event, as BMAA does, in order to encourage more members to turn up.

flyin'dutch' · Post by **flyin'dutch'** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:48 am

Brian, I think you are correct in that most people mean postal rather than proxy voting.

Whatever is decided as the way forward in this matter it is important that the membership is canvassed over the potential merger of the 2 associations.

In my view that would be best done by using the communication channels the Association has (the Magazine, website, bulletin board, attendance at regional rallies) and then sending out a postal vote.

That way every member can cast their vote without being hampered from having their say on this important matter on account of being unable to attend an AGM for whatever reason.

LAA matters are important but sometimes practical issues interfere with attendance at AGMs; earning a crust, family commitments for one but sheer distance and costs available with travel are another which can not be ignored.

Steve Brown · Post by **Steve Brown** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:25 am

I agree with the principle of widening the capability of members to have their say but postal voting is expensive and often the inevitable low return % means that a proportion of money spent is wasted.

Companies allow proxy voting at their AGMs and at these, those persons proposing a change have a means to put fwd their argument prior to the meeting. Granted, any prior proxy voting cannot take into account any debate / additional argument at the AGM but that system (inc appointing new directors) seems to work there.

How about something like a proxy voting form published in the mag that could allow members to either give their completed proxy vote form to an AGM-attending member or indeed send the proxy vote form to the AGM secretary in advance to collate & then add to the 'on the day' hand votes. Controls ref member number, signature etc would of course be needed as well as some checking but in a bigger BMAA/LAA church , members need to feel counted. It might also make members feel more 'included' and less likely to whinge about dark forces, cliches etc.

The LAA forum / BB could be used too to create a voting form - since the member has been already verified this would be even more secure / manageable.

That said, all this is more complex than a show of hands at the AGM so I guess it is a balance between greater access/broader representation vs cost/complexity

As Brian says this is not a company requiring strict legal process but an association so perhaps the process would not need to be as onerous or complex as to conform to company law or electoral practice perfection

The diverse geographics of many members, logistics ( ie if a high proportion did turn up) as well as 'green' un necessary travelling issues all point to a case for at least looking at the cost / benefit as part of any LAA/BMAA merger.

On that final item - great news - we do need to be careful that tboth bodies are respected and that it is a merger of equals for the common good. Much goodwill can be lost by loose talk about future names etc etc which imply otherwise.

Regards
Steve

flyin'dutch' · Post by **flyin'dutch'** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:30 am

Steve

It is about the future of the association so although cost has to be managed some money will have to be set aside for this issue.

Posting costs can be mitigated against by including the form with an issue of the magazine.

Steve Brown · Post by **Steve Brown** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:38 am

Frank that was indeed what I ( not the first to I might add) was suggesting - the costs I was referring to (even with magazine forms & BB voting or even email voting !!!) was collating ,counting checking recording of the vote forms and BB submissions etc - all of which have to be done by LAA staff ( unless volunteers do it but that would still require data base extraction of members / production of lists to check against)