[b][u]Cross posted from the open BMAA forum.[/u]
A similar urgency applies to all LAA pilots/strip users & Operators who will be seriously affected/shut down for two months next year ![/b]
mikehallam.
Thanks to all those who have sent in responses to me. I have now completed the BMAA response and submitted it to the CAA. Responses needed to be there by today to stand a chance of getting read and possibly discussed.
I have tried to include all the points raised by pilots in a constructive manner and also pointed out the financial implications for schools, owners, clubs and airfields. I have questioned the size of the Restricted Zone and the length of time that it is proposed to be in place. I have expressed concern with the practicalities of submitting and following Flight Plans using the proposed method. I have suggested alternative options for non transponder equipped aircraft. I have proposed a transit route to the east for aircraft wishing to cross to France.
Now we will have to see what notice is taken of our response and those of the other recreational flying organisations.
Geoff Weighell
Airspace for the Olympics
Moderators: John Dean, Moderator
-
mikehallam
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:12 pm
- Location: West Sussex
- Contact:
-
Tom Sheppard
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:47 pm
-
malcolm frost
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:04 pm
This is reminiscent of the response by the authorities in the USA after 9-11. For those who aren't familiar Boston Logan Airport, where the whole thing kicked off, is pretty much surrounded by water on which fishermen earn a living. After 9-11 the kneejerk reaction was to ban anyone from the water around the airport. What actually happened was that the fishermen were recruited as unpaid security, as they all knew exactly who should be on the water because they had a vested interest in protecting their catches.
Those of us who fly from airfields within the restricted zone could be in the same situation. The best security is always achieved by people knowing who should be there.
The flight plan restrictions seem to be unnecessarily draconian, I don't see why you shouldn't file a flight plan and be allocated a squawk and then simply listen out on an appropriate frequency. 3 months is way too long as well.
Those of us who fly from airfields within the restricted zone could be in the same situation. The best security is always achieved by people knowing who should be there.
The flight plan restrictions seem to be unnecessarily draconian, I don't see why you shouldn't file a flight plan and be allocated a squawk and then simply listen out on an appropriate frequency. 3 months is way too long as well.
Olympic Airspace Restrictions - Survey
The General Aviation Community have been and continue to be in discussions with the Home Office, DfT, CAA and NATS over the Olympic Airspace Restrictions. Whilst the issues regarding the size, shape, access, loss of flying currency by pilots, the number of airstrips within the zone, aircraft not equipped with transponders and some without radio, possible corridors to and from flying sites, the lack of space on the radio channels, problems with AFPEx and many other items have been raised, to date the authorities have only listened. The LAA have made it clear that we wish to work with the authorities to help to make the games as safe and secure as practical whilst continuing with business as usual where possible.
The DfT and the CAA have requested information from the GA Community of the true cost the Olympic Airspace Restrictions will have on the aviation community. Members of the General Aviation community have launched a survey to help with the compilation of this information, which will be used in the negotiations to keep GA flying during the period of the restrictions for the Olympic Games.
All aviators and businesses affected by the Olympic Airspace Restrictions are urged to complete the survey in order that a realistic picture of the effects can be shown to the authorities. This may include those airstrips that are outside the restricted zone that may hire or have a maintenance organisation on the field that deals with aircraft that are within the Restricted Zone.
If you know of any operators of a local strip that may be affected by the Restricted Zone, can you ensure the survey is made known to them as it is important that the fullest information possible is presented.
Can you also ensure that the operators of other aircraft based on the airfields complete the survey please.
The information is required by the 28th April.
The link to the survey is:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewfor ... E6MQ#gid=0
Your assistance with the production of this information is very important please.
Many thanks,
regards from John L Broad
LAA Director, Safety & Environment
The DfT and the CAA have requested information from the GA Community of the true cost the Olympic Airspace Restrictions will have on the aviation community. Members of the General Aviation community have launched a survey to help with the compilation of this information, which will be used in the negotiations to keep GA flying during the period of the restrictions for the Olympic Games.
All aviators and businesses affected by the Olympic Airspace Restrictions are urged to complete the survey in order that a realistic picture of the effects can be shown to the authorities. This may include those airstrips that are outside the restricted zone that may hire or have a maintenance organisation on the field that deals with aircraft that are within the Restricted Zone.
If you know of any operators of a local strip that may be affected by the Restricted Zone, can you ensure the survey is made known to them as it is important that the fullest information possible is presented.
Can you also ensure that the operators of other aircraft based on the airfields complete the survey please.
The information is required by the 28th April.
The link to the survey is:
https://spreadsheets.google.com/viewfor ... E6MQ#gid=0
Your assistance with the production of this information is very important please.
Many thanks,
regards from John L Broad
LAA Director, Safety & Environment
-
mikehallam
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:12 pm
- Location: West Sussex
- Contact:
[b]Copied From the Flyer Forum------Glum pointers from Dawn Lindsey who was our NATS mediator with DfT.[/b]
"Monday 23rd May.
The Department of Transport and the CAA at the recent EBACE exhibition in Geneva, provided further insight into arrangements for the 2012 Olympics (writes Rod Simpson). FLYER was able to pose a number of questions to representatives Phil Dykins (Department of Transport) and Dawn Lindsey (Head of CAA Olympic Airspace Planning) and they said their objective was to cause as little disruption as possible to existing airspace users........
...................More Guff,................. then :-
It seems certain that the restrictions will be burdensome and will prevent much private VFR flying for the two-month period. Pressure is being brought by many flying organisations but it appears that all the other pressures on the system make it unlikely that there will be much relaxation of the proposals."
Has the LAA/BMAA got any feed-back yet pls ?
mikehallam
"Monday 23rd May.
The Department of Transport and the CAA at the recent EBACE exhibition in Geneva, provided further insight into arrangements for the 2012 Olympics (writes Rod Simpson). FLYER was able to pose a number of questions to representatives Phil Dykins (Department of Transport) and Dawn Lindsey (Head of CAA Olympic Airspace Planning) and they said their objective was to cause as little disruption as possible to existing airspace users........
...................More Guff,................. then :-
It seems certain that the restrictions will be burdensome and will prevent much private VFR flying for the two-month period. Pressure is being brought by many flying organisations but it appears that all the other pressures on the system make it unlikely that there will be much relaxation of the proposals."
Has the LAA/BMAA got any feed-back yet pls ?
mikehallam
What beats me is why such a large area especially to the west. Why take the TMA and use that. can they not draw other lines on a mop. If it is security then why so far away why so far south, and west? What, Who in particular is the driving force. Someone personally took this idea and cooked it up, who?
If you have a business away from the area around Stratford why do you have to close down for such along time? There are no low level access to the other parts of the country ie the Gatwick corridor. I now understand that Manston is demanding a larger area for themselves to exclude even more of the south East from little planes. right to below Canterbury and out to the edge of the UK airspace FIR boundary.
AND THE LORD SAW IT AND IT WAS GOOD so will be forever.
I think that you should all scream a lot louder, I haven't seen any mention in ANY newspaper or ANY TV station.
If you have a business away from the area around Stratford why do you have to close down for such along time? There are no low level access to the other parts of the country ie the Gatwick corridor. I now understand that Manston is demanding a larger area for themselves to exclude even more of the south East from little planes. right to below Canterbury and out to the edge of the UK airspace FIR boundary.
AND THE LORD SAW IT AND IT WAS GOOD so will be forever.
I think that you should all scream a lot louder, I haven't seen any mention in ANY newspaper or ANY TV station.
-
Tom Sheppard
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:47 pm
-
Brian Hope
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:28 pm
- Location: Sheerness Kent
Be realistic, the public is not interested in the problems of a few pilots when thousands of jobs and services are being axed every month and everybody is having to tighten their belts as prices rise and their future looks rather less secure than they would like.
However, there are any number of discussions on-going about the Olympic airspace issue, just about every committee involving CAA, DfT, NATS and all the aviation organisations and associations are working to try and come up with a compromise strategy that will enable all parties to get what they want out of the Olympic security/freedom of movement quandary.
Will they succeed? I hope so, and I do have a vested interest because the strip I fly from is within the restricted area, but there are no guarantees. This is not the usual airspace grab, this comes under the UK security and we can only hope that those with the real authority in these situations - CAA, DfT and NATS - and who are sympathetic to our needs, will be able to wield sufficient influence for compromise to see the light of day.
I have far more faith in them than in Rupert Murdoch and co.
However, there are any number of discussions on-going about the Olympic airspace issue, just about every committee involving CAA, DfT, NATS and all the aviation organisations and associations are working to try and come up with a compromise strategy that will enable all parties to get what they want out of the Olympic security/freedom of movement quandary.
Will they succeed? I hope so, and I do have a vested interest because the strip I fly from is within the restricted area, but there are no guarantees. This is not the usual airspace grab, this comes under the UK security and we can only hope that those with the real authority in these situations - CAA, DfT and NATS - and who are sympathetic to our needs, will be able to wield sufficient influence for compromise to see the light of day.
I have far more faith in them than in Rupert Murdoch and co.
-
Mike Potts
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:35 am
Quote Tom Sheppard "This is an issue that needs an immediate and wide ranging publicity campaign"
I would be very careful if trying to go down this route. Recently I was at BBQ with a number of non flying people. You know the type of event, at one of my wife's friends home where all the women know each other well and the husbands have only meet briefly at previous BBQ's. A discussion took place regarding the groups lack of interest in the Olympics. I brought into the discussion the flying restrictions and as far as this group was concerned stopping us flying was a bonus and good thing, particularly if it will stop the noisy buzzing on a Sunday morning that spoils a round of Golf. If this group is taken as a cross section of the public a publicity campaign could work against us.
Why do I attend these events!!!!!!!!!!
Stuart Penfold
I would be very careful if trying to go down this route. Recently I was at BBQ with a number of non flying people. You know the type of event, at one of my wife's friends home where all the women know each other well and the husbands have only meet briefly at previous BBQ's. A discussion took place regarding the groups lack of interest in the Olympics. I brought into the discussion the flying restrictions and as far as this group was concerned stopping us flying was a bonus and good thing, particularly if it will stop the noisy buzzing on a Sunday morning that spoils a round of Golf. If this group is taken as a cross section of the public a publicity campaign could work against us.
Why do I attend these events!!!!!!!!!!
Stuart Penfold
-
Nigel Hitchman
- Posts: 357
- Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:10 pm
- Location: Hinton in the hedges
Ive asked them again to justify why they need the airspace for such a long time and why not a proportional response.
We just had the Royal wedding, a far more high profile event, with far more foreign heads of state. But we had a small peice of restricted airspace that I believe was totally inside the London CTR class A airspace.
Why isnt similar good enough for the Olympics- although shifted a few miles east.
Even if they can justify more for the Olympics, where is the justification for the Paralympics, which really is a very minor event that not many people are interested in (sorry thats not politically correct, but its true) Yes its great for the participants and worthy of support, but not a high profile terrorist target!!
And what about the bit inbetween, when nothing is happening!!!
I think this is what we should be fighting, we might chop bits off the edges for the Olympics, but surely it would be better if the whole thing only lasted 2-3 weeks, not 2 months!!
We just had the Royal wedding, a far more high profile event, with far more foreign heads of state. But we had a small peice of restricted airspace that I believe was totally inside the London CTR class A airspace.
Why isnt similar good enough for the Olympics- although shifted a few miles east.
Even if they can justify more for the Olympics, where is the justification for the Paralympics, which really is a very minor event that not many people are interested in (sorry thats not politically correct, but its true) Yes its great for the participants and worthy of support, but not a high profile terrorist target!!
And what about the bit inbetween, when nothing is happening!!!
I think this is what we should be fighting, we might chop bits off the edges for the Olympics, but surely it would be better if the whole thing only lasted 2-3 weeks, not 2 months!!
-
mikehallam
- Posts: 576
- Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2008 3:12 pm
- Location: West Sussex
- Contact:
It's been too darned quiet for my comfort, or complacency !!
NO FEED-BACK seen from the BMAA, or from the LAA web pages, on WHAT or IF or in fact ANYTHING has happened positive or negative.
The only comment after pushing the LAA was three weeks ago. From: John Brady
Wednesday, June 29, 2011 Subject: Re: Airspace Strategy CAA & DfT
Thanks Mike,
Roger H and others are in the Secretary of State's office talking about Olympics as I write!
John
Frankly I can only see this silence as HMG dping B. All till the MP's go off on Hol's, then on them returning in October to nod through a Bill which completely negates any of our supplications.
Unless you know better ????
mike hallam
NO FEED-BACK seen from the BMAA, or from the LAA web pages, on WHAT or IF or in fact ANYTHING has happened positive or negative.
The only comment after pushing the LAA was three weeks ago. From: John Brady
Wednesday, June 29, 2011 Subject: Re: Airspace Strategy CAA & DfT
Thanks Mike,
Roger H and others are in the Secretary of State's office talking about Olympics as I write!
John
Frankly I can only see this silence as HMG dping B. All till the MP's go off on Hol's, then on them returning in October to nod through a Bill which completely negates any of our supplications.
Unless you know better ????
mike hallam