Is this forum broken?

[Rod1]

On 27th April I posted identical messages about the departure of our CEO on this forum and on Flyer.

On this forum the message has been viewed 208 times with no comments, on Flyer it has been viewed 1980 times and received 47 comments in a lively debate.

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69941

I have long advised people who want to debate things LAA to do so on flyer as there are more members commenting.

Rod1

[Paul Hendry-Smith]

I dont think it is broken I think some like to stick their heads above the parapit and others dont, some have time to get into long winded threads and some dont and some get into the politics and some dont. My guess is each to their own??

The forum should be for the exchange of knowledge, the BMAA is certainly busier but a lot complain about the amount of cr@p it contains. I certainly would like to have a bit more going on but we must remember people generally dont sit next to the computer awaiting the next post.

As an aside it is real shame about Peter, I have only met him a few time but have nothing but good things to say about him, I am sure he will be missed.

Paul

[Nigel Ramsay]

I have long advised people who want to debate things LAA to do so on flyer as there are more members commenting.

Rod1

As already said, real names, real pack drill!

Broken NO but seriously under utilised.

It's a general truth though that the LAA Forum carries a lot of useful technical information and general association information but any form of contentious discussion is thoroughly discouraged. Perhaps an LAA 'area' on another forum might be the way forward? I'm sure Flyer might oblige?

I'm a member of a shooting forum which has an almost communist state approach to moderation with members being expelled weekly; not good!

It's also a fact however that Trolls will cause problems (the original reason for real names I think?), it's inevitable we will get them on here but surely we could have a quick response Mod team?

[Brian Hope]

Another conspiracy theory from Ron, nothing new there then. Coming out from under my cloak and with dagger safely sheathed I would agree with Nigel and Paul, the forum is sadly under used and there are no doubt a number of reasons for that. I really don’t think most people are interested in sitting in front of their computers posting on forums on what are often quite banal (note the b) threads. I sit in front of the computer for extended periods most days, but this is the only forum I even look at, let alone post on, and then only because I am involved with the Association. It is a useful tool, no doubt, and is great for getting answers to queries and help and advice, but if I want to chew the fat over LAA and aviation politics I’d much rather do it up the strip on the weekend with my mates and really laugh out loud.
The re-introduction of anonymity does carry a risk of returning to the anarchy that beset the forum in its early days. It's all well and good saying we can moderate extreme comment, but we then get accused of censorship and controlling the debate. It is a no win situation in many ways for us.
However, I did recently raise the issue of allowing non member access to posting on the board and it was met with a generally positive attitude. I hope that is something we decide to act on sooner rather than later.

[gasax]

It is broken.

Until a more enlightened hand moderates the forum and the various people in 'the know' actually decide to communicate that knowledge it will remain broken.

For a long time the forum has been seen as a threat by these people - so it has been starved to death. All of my LAA knowledge comes from the Flyer and Pprune websites - nothing from here.

[Brian Hope]

Pete, Ron, what you read on the Flyer forum is chat from people about the LAA. Whether that chat is informed or not is highly questionable because to the best of my knowledge staff and board members do not subscribe to it. Now, we can argue the rights and wrongs about whether staff and board members should spend time posting on forums, but suggesting that what you read on Flyer is factual and that information is being stifled by moderation on this forum is stretching the realms of reason. Nobody is taking anything down from this site, it simply isn't being used. Maybe most of our members simply can't be bothered to gossip about who did what to whom and with what.
Oh, and if you read about the impending departure of the CEO on Flyer or Pprune, where do you think they got the information from - the home page of the LAA website perhaps, where it was placed to inform our members of what was going on.

[Andrew Leak]

Hold on here, I'm sorry but I'm with Brian here. I used to moderate on a public forum where anonymity was king and defamation was often the order of the day until it was closed. Generally most forums are tosh and threads often end up with a few idiots giving the human race a bad name. I work in the IT industry and advise clients not to create a public forum as it is often a slog to moderate and administer when things sometimes get out of control with the usual 'trolls' and idiots voicing their often worthless opinions about other commentators. However, PPrune and Flyer (to name just these two) are more of a community and most forumites know each other anyway. Any users who get a bit silly are often made to look foolish and thus ignored when they post again. These sites are still technically anonymous with usernames, but everyone generally knows who they are and it has a wider ranging audience who don't have to be a paid up member to post on it and it works. These are by far the exception in the aviation forum world as most actually still like their hobby/jobs.

So what of my comment. I have been grateful to LAA members for advice whilst going through my restoration project, where I could not get hold of my inspector or didn't want to seem like an idiot, members have been very kind and I don't think I've ever struggled for an answer on this forum. As far as new legislation goes and the debates over airspace, I think the LAA has done an incredible job at keeping us informed one way or another. I didn't buy a whistles and bells 8.33 radio as it seems I may not need it yet and again the website has been great for that.

I think it's unfair Pete/Ron (sorry but your posts are incorrect) that you say that the forum is broken or that members feel they can't say what they feel, if you do that in the real world and someone doesn't like it you'll harness yourself to a lawsuit if it's bad enough! On the forum if it's too defamatory, it gets removed (I agree with that) I don't feel the LAA wants to stifle anybody, as I don't mind my name on forum posts - I am not afraid of anyone (only my wife) who doesn't like what I say, whether I'm right or wrong. I am sure Brian will agree, if you have a complaint about the way the LAA is run or how the forum isn't quite to your liking then put yourself forward to change it or write a letter and say something, if enough feel this is so, then we have a choice to change how we want to serve our association and how we want it to serve us as members.

Debate ....on!

[rogerburge]

So why did he go? where did he go? who's up for replacing him?

[mikehallam]

FWIW,
Personally the three I try to watch are BMAA (fair bit of tosh but better since banning the trolls), Pprune has a quick glance and 'of course' the LAA forum.

There are always folk whose natural nature makes them write contentious entries, always fearing the worst of the people giving up a lot of their own time to work for the benefit of LAA members.

Our community is blessed with a smattering of members who find it so easy to find fault & slag people off and easier still not to lift a finger to help.

The PFA has high standards & over all its years its Committee and hard working Staff have justifiably acquired an excellent reputation.
Many Members rely on the printed word and the forum is mostly attended to by a minority whose views therefore [inc. mine] aren't necessarily representative.
IMHO to seek an increase in volume by allowing anonymity to return will lower standards, attract more destructive entries & put off the majority of considerate members.

Now opening it up a little to non members, as an experiment, might help recruitment ?

mike hallam.

[Planemike]

Welshman and gasax are both correct in what they say.

Just been on Flyer to read the comments re. departure of CEO and it is an all together more dynamic thread.

I still do not understand why the LAA has this "hangup" about anonimity, just don,t get it. I write what what I wish anyway.

Now opening it up a little to non members, as an experiment, might help recruitment ?

The words "hell, over, freezing and first" come to mind. We are just not a progressive organisation.

Planemike

[Brian Hope]

Well as I said earlier Mike, it is on the agenda so maybe hell might just freeze over.
Maybe you could give me some pointers about where we are going wrong in not being a 'progressive organisation'.
I thought being active on EASA working groups so that we can have some input into the future path that GA takes, having discussions with CAA about getting IMC and Night privileges for appropriately equipped and maintained LAA Permit aircraft, expanding our fleet with more orphan aircraft and trying to establish an Experimental class were anything but things that a moribund organisation would do. And what about the aircraft that we approve, the RV12 and Luciole to name but two - up to the minute designs that our members can now build.
OK we don't allow anonymous postings on the forum, but that hardly negates all the work that is being done. Personally I think we gave anonymity a shot and it just isn't worth the hassle. If that make those running LAA a bunch of Luddites then so be it, but maybe you should rearrange the following and have a think about it - none blind there's see as those that will not so.

[Bob F]

The 'anonymity' issue seems to be one thing that keeps our Forum active!

I understand the problems of Trolls, et al, but what I don't understand is why a member cannot use a "nom de guerre" on the Forum as long as the Association have all his details. On the Forum his real name would not be shown unless he chose it as his 'Forum Name'. It may also allow members to ask questions that thay may think are naive or may make them appear stupid or ill informed.

[Tom Sheppard]

Brian's points about the things that are happening from day to day are well made. In many ways this is an up to date organisation but the point has also been made that the hierarchy of the organisation are both distant and secretive. I'm inclined to agree with that as well. Most people are only here in order to maintain their permits and don't give a stuff about the organisation. To them, the LAA is just another bill. We look inwards, rather than outwards. How many schools have had a visit and a talk from a member about building your own 'plane? Where is the junior membership/ model aircraft fly in (£10 ceiling on construction, an hour of flight for the regional winner and a bursary to solo for the national champion.) Too radical? Probably, alas. Why don't we contribute snippets to the modelling magazines? THESE ARE TOMORROW'S BUILDERS, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE!