Brian, your earlier post proves what you say,you don't read other forums, maybe you should!
About a year ago Rod and I started Preaching the LAA gospel on the Flyer forum.
I go on there regularly and help with engineering matters as an inspector. This has resulted in at least 5 new members to my knowledge .
The forum now has a good following of LAA members and people are now frequently asking questions about permit aircraft and how to join the LAA.
In fact I would go as far as saying that it is the single most succesfull advertising campiagn for the LAA.
Its a crying shame that it has had to be done that way (ie unofficially) but the end justifies the efforts with more and more people coming over to the LAA system every week.
Is this forum broken?
Moderators: John Dean, Moderator
I am not at all sure you should have let the cat out of the bag JC! The fact is that an LAA forum imbedded in the Flyer site would be a very powerful tool in getting our message across. The frustration is that we have effectively proved it would work by our unofficial two years of fun on flyer. We have created an LAA community on Flyer which is sadly lacking on this forum.
Rod1
Rod1
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Tom Sheppard
- Posts: 84
- Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:47 pm
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Richard Mole
- Posts: 213
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 7:06 pm
- Location: East Midlands
I for one am quite satisfied with the excellent LAA Forum as it stands, and I suspect there are many many more of like mind.
I have just been to the Flyer Forum and felt that I had mostly wasted my time reading it. Please don't change this Forum in any way that would encourage those sorts of exchanges. I think it would probably increase the 'background noise' and make it more onerous to identify the really useful messages which appear here from time to time.
Obviously, others will have perfectly good reasons for wanting change and they are as entitled to their views, as am I. But I didn't want the 'no change' case to be lost by default.
I have just been to the Flyer Forum and felt that I had mostly wasted my time reading it. Please don't change this Forum in any way that would encourage those sorts of exchanges. I think it would probably increase the 'background noise' and make it more onerous to identify the really useful messages which appear here from time to time.
Obviously, others will have perfectly good reasons for wanting change and they are as entitled to their views, as am I. But I didn't want the 'no change' case to be lost by default.
Richard
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Brian Hope
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:28 pm
- Location: Sheerness Kent
"Where is the junior membership/ model aircraft fly in (£10 ceiling on construction, an hour of flight for the regional winner and a bursary to solo for the national champion.) Too radical? Probably, alas. Why don't we contribute snippets to the modelling magazines? THESE ARE TOMORROW'S BUILDERS, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE!"
This is an association Tom, it is run by volunteers in the main and that means self help. Your ideas may well have legs but do you really think the few who currently work hard to keep the wheels on this thing have time to do everything? YES do a great deal of youth education work, and the LAA ET was established to fund these kinds of initiatives. Each year ET gives thousands of pounds to Build a Plane projects and YES and I'm sure any of those groups would be more than happy for you to get involved. As somebody involved in ET funding, I’ll tell you straight – bring us a proposition to do what you are talking about and we will consider providing funding for it.
As for everybody only being a member because they have to be, the facts do not bear that out. 8000 members and probably half building or owning a completed and permitted aircraft. What keeps the other 4000 on board? The results of the recently held survey will soon be published and we shall see what members think of the Association. I have not seen the results yet but I am willing to bet that the majority are very satisfied with what is happening and feel good progress is being made.
And let's not run away with the idea that anybody is making anybody be a member of the LAA here. Nobody has twisted anybody's arm up their back and made them buy an LAA PtF aircraft. If the cost of LAA membership, which doesn't even amount to a tankful of Avgas in most aircraft, is so distasteful, then the option is always there to sell the aircraft and look elsewhere for their flying.[/i]
This is an association Tom, it is run by volunteers in the main and that means self help. Your ideas may well have legs but do you really think the few who currently work hard to keep the wheels on this thing have time to do everything? YES do a great deal of youth education work, and the LAA ET was established to fund these kinds of initiatives. Each year ET gives thousands of pounds to Build a Plane projects and YES and I'm sure any of those groups would be more than happy for you to get involved. As somebody involved in ET funding, I’ll tell you straight – bring us a proposition to do what you are talking about and we will consider providing funding for it.
As for everybody only being a member because they have to be, the facts do not bear that out. 8000 members and probably half building or owning a completed and permitted aircraft. What keeps the other 4000 on board? The results of the recently held survey will soon be published and we shall see what members think of the Association. I have not seen the results yet but I am willing to bet that the majority are very satisfied with what is happening and feel good progress is being made.
And let's not run away with the idea that anybody is making anybody be a member of the LAA here. Nobody has twisted anybody's arm up their back and made them buy an LAA PtF aircraft. If the cost of LAA membership, which doesn't even amount to a tankful of Avgas in most aircraft, is so distasteful, then the option is always there to sell the aircraft and look elsewhere for their flying.[/i]
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Andrew Leak
- Posts: 79
- Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 7:49 pm
- Location: Southampton
- Contact:
Here here Richard! Horses for courses and all that, I just don't have the time to sit on other aviation forums anymore and chew the cud as I too, need to focus on more important issues as I am trying to get an aeroplane fit for flight (the reason why I joined the LAA/PFA). I don't think it is so important to have a forum like the Flyer, what's the point? It would only be duplicating it and it is a success for the kind of forumites it attracts. If you want you can find similar chat on the UKGA forum, PPrune et al.... there are a few of them out there and you do find the same individuals go on most of them...get a life!
I think we should keep the LAA forum as it is, it serves a purpose and is more than adequate for what it was intended - to serve the membership, let's not lose sight of that.
I think we should keep the LAA forum as it is, it serves a purpose and is more than adequate for what it was intended - to serve the membership, let's not lose sight of that.
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flyin'dutch'
- Posts: 39
- Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:51 am
It's been a few years since I have posted on here but plus ca change.
As soon as anyone posts anything which by some cognoscenti can be construed as criticism Brian will shoot them down.
Obviously someone in the LAA must have decided that having a forum is a 'good thing' otherwise no money and effort would have been and continues to be invested in this resource.
If you don't think that something as important as a departing CEO gets a mention or discussed then that demonstrates that people are very busy gazing inward.
For an association which wants to conquer the GA world that would seem to be a less than helpful attitude.
As soon as anyone posts anything which by some cognoscenti can be construed as criticism Brian will shoot them down.
Obviously someone in the LAA must have decided that having a forum is a 'good thing' otherwise no money and effort would have been and continues to be invested in this resource.
If you don't think that something as important as a departing CEO gets a mention or discussed then that demonstrates that people are very busy gazing inward.
For an association which wants to conquer the GA world that would seem to be a less than helpful attitude.
Frank Voeten
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Ian Melville
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:21 pm
Forum Broke? not sure but the website as a whole is under used
Recent example 250th RV, on Flyer website, no mention here
2011 Rally booking slots now active, On Flyer forum, no mention here. In fact the 2011 Rally is not mentioned as an event. I have to go to members Area then right down to the bottom of the page to find it!! Joe Public cannot see that?
I understand that a new website is in the making? Lets hope the forum software is also updated at the same time, it's past it's use-by date.
I tend to use the LAA forum for it's technical aspect rather than banter and socialising. Flyer has a group of unpaid mods that seem to provide 24/7 protection. Would the LAA consider this?
There is only so much time one can spend on the PC, must get a life
Recent example 250th RV, on Flyer website, no mention here
2011 Rally booking slots now active, On Flyer forum, no mention here. In fact the 2011 Rally is not mentioned as an event. I have to go to members Area then right down to the bottom of the page to find it!! Joe Public cannot see that?
I understand that a new website is in the making? Lets hope the forum software is also updated at the same time, it's past it's use-by date.
I tend to use the LAA forum for it's technical aspect rather than banter and socialising. Flyer has a group of unpaid mods that seem to provide 24/7 protection. Would the LAA consider this?
There is only so much time one can spend on the PC, must get a life
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Nick Allen
- Posts: 456
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:00 am
- Location: Oxford
- Contact:
In no particular order...
1) Once again, Brian is deemed to be the official voice of the LAA -- he's just the magazine editor expressing his own views, chaps.
2) It's a shame this forum isn't a little more active, but...
3) ...I don't think there is a need for yet another all-purpose flying forum and there's no harm this one having its own character.
4) I think it would have been a minor courtesy if Peter Harvey had himself put a short note on the forum announcing his departure. (I also think that if he was going to have a "Chairman's Blog" he should have updated it more than three times! -- better no blog at all.)
5) Ian raised the interesting point about lack of news on this forum. Someone (Brian?) forward me interesting press releases, and I'll digest these and post them (on an ad hoc basis)!
1) Once again, Brian is deemed to be the official voice of the LAA -- he's just the magazine editor expressing his own views, chaps.
2) It's a shame this forum isn't a little more active, but...
3) ...I don't think there is a need for yet another all-purpose flying forum and there's no harm this one having its own character.
4) I think it would have been a minor courtesy if Peter Harvey had himself put a short note on the forum announcing his departure. (I also think that if he was going to have a "Chairman's Blog" he should have updated it more than three times! -- better no blog at all.)
5) Ian raised the interesting point about lack of news on this forum. Someone (Brian?) forward me interesting press releases, and I'll digest these and post them (on an ad hoc basis)!
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Brian Hope
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:28 pm
- Location: Sheerness Kent
Dutchy, I'm not shooting anybody down; I just happen not to agree with some of the sweeping negativity that gets posted on the forum. If somebody is going to come on here and suggest that most LAA members are only members because they have to be and I think that's a load of tosh then don't I have the right to say so? I’m not aware of any rule that says you can only use the forum provided you want to slag off the LAA.
As Nick says, I am expressing my personal view, and as editor and a board member that view is obviously going to be pro the Association. I believe it is useful to the debate for people with opposing views to express them. If you only want to read people’s views that agree with your own then there’s not really much point to it is there?
Ian, go to the Home page of the website and the Rally dates, venue and Rally website links are plain enough to see. And the announcement that the slot system was open was made on this forum - see Nigel Ramsay's and Martin Ryan's interchange of April 12/15 on Hangar Chat thread Rally Slot Booking.
The 250th RV press release did not make it onto the homepage, an error I would agree. Most stuff that goes out does though. Nick, we might well take you up on the offer so you can put stuff onto the forum, thanks for offering to help.
As Nick says, I am expressing my personal view, and as editor and a board member that view is obviously going to be pro the Association. I believe it is useful to the debate for people with opposing views to express them. If you only want to read people’s views that agree with your own then there’s not really much point to it is there?
Ian, go to the Home page of the website and the Rally dates, venue and Rally website links are plain enough to see. And the announcement that the slot system was open was made on this forum - see Nigel Ramsay's and Martin Ryan's interchange of April 12/15 on Hangar Chat thread Rally Slot Booking.
The 250th RV press release did not make it onto the homepage, an error I would agree. Most stuff that goes out does though. Nick, we might well take you up on the offer so you can put stuff onto the forum, thanks for offering to help.
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Ian Melville
- Posts: 1000
- Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:21 pm
I quite honestly didn't see that on the home page, so why is it not in the events?Ian, go to the Home page of the website and the Rally dates, venue and Rally website links are plain enough to see. And the announcement that the slot system was open was made on this forum - see Nigel Ramsay's and Martin Ryan's interchange of April 12/15 on Hangar Chat thread Rally Slot Booking.
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Chris Martyr
- Posts: 584
- Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:58 am
- Location: Horsted Keynes Sussex
Is The Forum broken? Well I don't think it is, but there are one or two misguided souls who believe that this type of chat forum is some kind of barometer as to the state of health of the LAA - Well it's not - look at the stats, only about 40% of the membership subscribe to it, and of those , most post either very little or not at all, some pop up occasionally, but only a small nucleus are 'at it' all the time.
I've also sent the odd gripes in to our poor old brow-beaten Editor, a couple of them quite pointed, but ask yourself , what have the PFA/LAA ever done for me ? Well, quite alot actually , its amazing Permit system has allowed me to build and fly an incredible little aeroplane , at a fraction of the cost that our CofA bound brethren have to bear, and the best bit of all , I fly from a very active strip, where pretty much everyone is an LAA member and most of the aircraft are Permit types, that's where the real fellowship and camraderie lies, not sitting glued to these bl**dy things that were all doing now.
So when I read some of the comments like ,'the LAA being distant and secretive, or ,most people don't give a stuff, they just want their Permits renewed [poor old John Brady must be sitting there with his head in his hands] or why can't we get our Permits renewed elsewhere - well , you can , at that big old shiny shed at Gatwick ,but you really don't want to go there, it's a bit depressing that blokes can get themselves into this maelstrom of negativity . As a matter of fact, all this has just reminded me why I have so little interest in Chatforums .
What on earth did l these guys do before computers were around ? Must have spent an awful lot of time twiddling their thumbs !
Oh yes , I also saw that CEO Peter Harvey is moving on to pastures new, pity really ,as he seemed a nice enough bloke and I wish him well . Or was he frog-marched out of the building by the fraud squad , could have been involved in espionage I suppose.
Hang about,,,, he wasn't out in Abbotabad, Pakistan recently was he ?
I've also sent the odd gripes in to our poor old brow-beaten Editor, a couple of them quite pointed, but ask yourself , what have the PFA/LAA ever done for me ? Well, quite alot actually , its amazing Permit system has allowed me to build and fly an incredible little aeroplane , at a fraction of the cost that our CofA bound brethren have to bear, and the best bit of all , I fly from a very active strip, where pretty much everyone is an LAA member and most of the aircraft are Permit types, that's where the real fellowship and camraderie lies, not sitting glued to these bl**dy things that were all doing now.
So when I read some of the comments like ,'the LAA being distant and secretive, or ,most people don't give a stuff, they just want their Permits renewed [poor old John Brady must be sitting there with his head in his hands] or why can't we get our Permits renewed elsewhere - well , you can , at that big old shiny shed at Gatwick ,but you really don't want to go there, it's a bit depressing that blokes can get themselves into this maelstrom of negativity . As a matter of fact, all this has just reminded me why I have so little interest in Chatforums .
What on earth did l these guys do before computers were around ? Must have spent an awful lot of time twiddling their thumbs !
Oh yes , I also saw that CEO Peter Harvey is moving on to pastures new, pity really ,as he seemed a nice enough bloke and I wish him well . Or was he frog-marched out of the building by the fraud squad , could have been involved in espionage I suppose.
Hang about,,,, he wasn't out in Abbotabad, Pakistan recently was he ?