LAPL conversion from PPL(A)

[Flying John]

I see the CAA released "proposed charges for 2013/14" and on reading through, to see how much of my hard earned flyng money is going to be prised away from me for the conversion of my Lifetime PPL, that there does not seem to be a direct step from the old brown cover National PPL(A) to a LAPL.

I wonder if one has to convert first to an NPPL and then to a LAPL - is there someone who actually understands all these changes that can explain my best course of action.

You see at the moment I am on a self declaration medical (i.e GP counter sign) and when my Bi Annual Examiner signature is required I will need a Class 2 medical again (apparently).

So my reasoning was that I should get a LAPL, which has an every 2 years medical requirement (over 50) and allows me to go foreign. Or is there another course of action I should be taking.

How do I set about making the changes and am I actually going to endure two sets of charges ?


Appologies if this has been covered - but I havent really understood previous discussions as they relate to my circumstances.

John

[John Dean]

The answer is usually somewhere on the CAA website but the only relevant document seems to be CAP 804 Flight Crew Licensing. At 852 pages it was too daunting to try to make sense of it. I am likely to go the same route from a CAA PPL(A) to a LAPL and I thought it was just a form filling and cheque writing excercise.

No doubt someone will be along shortly with a definitive answer - I believe our illustrious magazine editor is well versed in this subject.

[Paul Hendry-Smith]

I have converted from a Class 2 medical with a UK PPL(A) to a LAPL, got on to FCL and there is no fee apart from between you and your AME, just fold up the medical and stick it in the back of your licence.

Paul

[John Dean]

Hi Paul,

Not sure that I understand. Have you only got a CAA UK PPL licence. If so, I am fairly sure that a LAPL medical is only good with a LAPL license. Did the FCL tell you differently?

This licensing business seems to be getting ever more complex!

[Paul Hendry-Smith]

Hi John

I have a non expiring PPL A which I can run with a LAPL , I need to get an EASA licence sometime in 2014 but until then I have no problem. Have a look in LASORS which is now CAP804 free download, then check section P page 22. I sat down and read the whole thing and still needed FCL to confirm, a weekend reading 800+ pages of cr@p makes you wonder what the CAA get up to on a daily basis?????

[Cookie]

Note that EASA Medicals are called Certificates. NPPL Medicals are called Declarations. The use of a LAPL Medical Certificate does not confer the same privileges as Class 1 or 2 Medical Certificate. Please note:

CAP 804 Part N Page 1:

"1.5 For a PPL(A), PPL(H), SPL and BPL a Class 2 (or Class 1) Medical Certificate is required."

"1.7 For the UK NPPL(Aeroplanes/SLMG/Microlight), PPL(Gyroplanes) PPL(Balloons and Airships) and a restricted CPL(Balloons) a UK Medical Declaration is required; a Part-MED LAPL, Class 1 or Class 2 Medical Certificate is acceptable."

and

"1.8.1 The UK Medical Declaration is not acceptable to support an EASA LAPL in place of an LAPL Medical Certificate."

So three scenarios:

1) NPPL licence + LAPL medical = OK (para 1.7)

2) LAPL licence + NPPL medical = NO GO. (para 1.8.1)

3) PPL Licence + LAPL medical = NO GO. Article 72 (2) - ANO Aug 2012 - since they changed the article numbers - prohibits it's use, and ORS 912 does not exempt: "3.9 The licence holder has a medical declaration " not certificate.

I have a non expiring PPL A which I can run with a LAPL (medical certificate?)

Note that you cannot use a PPL (A) with a LAPL medical certificate. CAP 804 Section P to which you later refer covers the conversion of existing licences to EASA licences, not the use of medical certificates with existing licences. This is described in CAP 804 Section N.

All the best, Cookie

[Paul Hendry-Smith]

Hi Jon

Well I had it confirmed by FCL

[Cookie]

Would you be kind enough to forward me your confirmation. Many thanks.

[Paul Hendry-Smith]

Was verbal by telephone

[Cookie]

Hi Paul,

In order to assist you, I have sent an e-mail to the CAA and received written confirmation from the Head of Policy at the CAA that the answer which I have provided above is correct. He informs me that he is re-briefing the managers in the Licensing team.

So, in summary:

1) NPPL licence + LAPL medical = OK (para 1.7)

2) LAPL licence + NPPL medical = NO GO. (para 1.8.1)

3) PPL Licence + LAPL medical = NO GO.

You will need to either obtain a Medical Declaration to go with your national PPL or obtain a LAPL to go with your LAPL medical.

I have forwarded a copy of Mr Whittaker's response via e-mail to you, and posted here so that other members will also be aware of the potential problems with the two licensing systems.

Kind regards,

Cookie

[Cookie]

Since I have been asked via e-mail please note that, to avoid confusion in the NPPL + LAPL Medical = OK statement, it is the licence which provides the privileges.

Therefore an NPPL licence will only ever provide NPPL licence privileges, regardless of which medical you choose to use. You will not obtain LAPL privileges by using a LAPL medical with a NPPL.

[Bill McCarthy]

Well for one, I'm still in a mucking fuddle ! Tell me again what I've got to do as holder of a lifetime non expiring license, or is it time for me to hang up my headset for good.

[Cookie]

If you're the holder of a lifetime UK national PPL then the following dates apply:



For UK licence holders flying only LAA aircraft, then you don't have to do anything until April 2015. After April 2015, your licence will then only hold NPPL privileges. If you do nothing, you will be able to continue to fly your LAA aircraft in UK airspace after April 2015. If you wish to fly abroad and/or fly EASA aircraft you will need a EASA PPL or LAPL after April 2015.

I will compile an article about this in the New Year.

Cookie

[Graham Clark]

So if there is a reciprocal agreement in place with the French and any others recognising the validity of the UK NPPL, then my old UK Lifetime Licence will still be valid, n'est ce pas?

[Bill McCarthy]

Many thanks Cookie - I have no intention of flying abroad, therefore I shall just sit tight. A real challenge would be for me to get to the Sywell rally with the Sluka, that's all. There's hope for me yet !