8.33hz radios

[tnowak]

The handheld radio approval issue isn't just a UK issue. The rules must, surely, apply to all European countries?
Perhaps the org. that represents all European GA interests, (ECOGAS or another acronym I can't remember (EGAVsomething)) would be in the best position to approach the handheld manufacturers.
Tony N

[Alan Kilbride]

Maybe it is a European wide issue. Therefore let's all wait for a European Association to pick up the ball and run with it? Why not start with our own Association who do have a voice in Europe?

[Brian Hope]

As I see it, and I am certainly not part of any hierarchy, LAA or otherwise, there is little anybody is going to be able to do on this issue other than ensure Icom understands the situation and appreciates the commercial opportunity that mandated 8.33 across Europe presents to them. Yes LAA can send a letter of explanation and ask that they consider going for approval on one of their handhelds but it would have greater impact if thousands of potential buyers contacted the agents and importers across Europe to let them know they are keen to buy such a unit.
8.33 has been dictated by Europe, CAA has no course of action other than to implement it in UK and
there is zero possibility of getting any kind of exemption to use uncertified equipment just to save pilots money. Is it fair that we have to foot the bill when it was CAT that drove this requirement, no it isn’t but that’s the way it is. The CAA, the UK Government and the General Aviation industry cannot change that, let alone the LAA.

[Brian Hope]

When all else fails - talk to the manufacturer. Icom is aware of the need to get an 8.33 handheld approved and is already talking with EASA. they clearly see the market potential.
The earlier models were approved when CAA did the approvals rather than EASA and part of the problem is that EASA does not yet have a standard for handhelds, they are covered by the same standard as a radio you'd fit into an Airbus. Hopefully this will get resolved and if LAA can bring some pressure to bear to hasten getting the standard drawn up then we will do so.

[Alan Kilbride]

That's all anyone is asking Brian. We know we can do sweet FA about mandatory 8.33, But asking the LAA to help with lobbying various hand held manufacturers isn't asking too much is it?
Expecting them to listen to a couple of hundred minions begging for them to seek approval, or the weight of various associations within the light aviation community throughout Europe putting our case forward doesn't need a Mori poll to pick which has more weight.
I would like he LAA to get in touch with sister Associations in EASA land and take the case forward please.
Edited to add...... I e mailed ICOM UK and they promtly replied that they were indeed in contact with EASA about approval for the 24e. I suppose if more individuals and associations contact them they will have proof of desire which may tip the scales in our favour.

Alan

ps What's happening with the LAA/RSA bun fight at the weekend?

[Chris Martyr]

Brian , the content of your last posting is actually very much appreciated mate .

I know that as one of the few representatives of the 'hierarchy' [sorry] that venture onto this forum, you probably take a disproportionate amount of body blows , but at least it is comforting to know that there are others out there who have an interest in our little plight. Not least Icom themselves.

Should any sort of campaign be initiated regarding this, is it at all possible that a posting on here and perhaps a mention in LA with the relevant links might help. A bit like the process used when airfields are put under threat from planning authorities . I am sure that a quite considerable response would be generated .

'Ere,,what's all this RSA business then ? You mean you're not coming to the Deanland International Fly-In ?

[Brian Hope]

Thanks Chris. It's a LAA Bonus Day at Duxford on Saturday and we are expecting around a dozen French RSA aircraft to arrive. We are then flying to Abbeville for a 'do' in the evening. This is really a re-run of what was going to be the 65th celebration LAA/RSA fly-in last year but the weather didn't play ball and the French part was cancelled. So, if you aren't already planning to go to Deanland why not either come to Duxford for the day or do Duxford and then Abbeville, or just turn up at Abbeville. Weather is looking good at the moment whichever you choose.

[Chris Martyr]

Hang on,,,let's just get this right .

I'm based at Deanland . so I'll be doing Deanland - Duxford - Abbeville all in a day . Plus the return sector.

.........IN A VP-1,,,

And besides, the batteries in my handheld would never stand the strain...

[Nigelcot]

It also isn't strictly true that the only sets available are high end and of little interest to LAA members. Trig's new set retails for about £1250 and Funkwerk is about the same. They may become a little cheaper if the market becomes more competitive. No it isn’t cheap and I don’t want to fork out that much either, but for the type of flying I do NORDO isn’t really an option.

Brian,

I assume this is in reply to my post, if you read it carefully you will see that I did'nt claim all 8.33 sets were high end but that the only ones that were'nt were from small European manufacturers such as those you quote. Hence my doubt that the large handheld manufacturers will seek approval for their 8.33 offerings as the major market, the USA, seems able to muddle through on 760 channels.

[Chris Martyr]

Nigel.
Along with I suspect a few others, I have been in contact with Icom UK , who were very helpful in their reply, stating that they are indeed in contact with a CAA Working Group who are in turn liaising with 'The Clueless Ones' with regard to the IC-A6E , IC-A24E and the panel mounted IC-A210E , which all have 8.33Khz capability but as yet no approval.
As Brian pointed out , they don't have any yardstick to make any comparisons yet other than Boeing and Airbus type applications , so will need a little bit of 'specialist local knowledge' rammed into their bureaucratic bonces ..... And we've only got four years to do this..
Had they got any sort of grip on recreational flying in the first place , then this ridiculous 8.33 KHz bandwidth spacing issue would never ever have arisen . But that's just raking up the past .

Hopefully , enough organisations - E.G. LAA, BMAA, AOPA, plus the French and German representatives of light aviation and significant other concerned bodies will all contribute to a satisfactory outcome to a situation that had any degree of aviation expertise been present at the start , could have been totally avoided .

[Brian Hope]

Had they got any sort of grip on recreational flying in the first place , then this ridiculous 8.33 KHz bandwidth spacing issue would never ever have arisen . But that's just raking up the past .
Hopefully , enough organisations - E.G. LAA, BMAA, AOPA, plus the French and German representatives of light aviation and significant other concerned bodies will all contribute to a satisfactory outcome to a situation that had any degree of aviation expertise been present at the start , could have been totally avoided .
Those bodies did make representation to EASA regarding the adoption of 8.33 and the impact it would have on Sport and Recreational Aviation but the weight of the argument made by commercial aviation that there was a dire shortage of available frequencies won the day.
I have asked if Europe Air Sports can look at the radio approvals issue and await comment.

[Rod1]

I have approached one of the radio suppliers and if I buy 4 radios of any make or model other than Garmin or BK I can get a discount. I have suggested to the LAA that if it organized the purchase of 1000 radios the discount could be quite impressive…

Currently helping a friend fit a Trig radio and am quite impressed so far.

Rod1

[Mick Bevan]

Hi all,
In the recent Pilot magazine, an Icom product review, written by one PW, mentioned firmware downloads to convert from 25khz spacing to 8.33. can anyone add to this or show a link to information about firmware downloading for Icom models.

regards
Mick

[AlanR]

I am still of the opinion that the Dec 31st 2017 deadline will be deferred. Nothing really to base this on but just a feeling in my water following on from the fiasco and extended deadlines that we had for Mode S transponders.
I am keeping my 8.33khz radio funds in my pocket as long as I can!

[Chris Martyr]

Deferral or no deferral , I don't unfortunately think that there's any getting away from this. It's coming , as sure as eggs is eggs. So we'll all have to comply eventually .
I certainly agree with Alan about shelling out prematurely though , as I don't think that this 8.33Khz business will be without further developments between now and Jan 2018.
My own aeroplane simply does not have enough space to fit a panel mounted piece of apparatus though, and I know that there are many, many others in the same predicament , especially amongst the classic/vintage and weightshifter community. So it's not just parsimony that makes it so important that hand-helds are retained in the grass roots flying fraternity .
Mick's point was rather interesting though, and I'll definitely be keeping an eye out for that .