8.33hz radios

[paul330]

OK, probably my fault and I misunderstood the implications of the introduction of the 8.33hz radios. Last (I thought) I heard, the issue was put on the back-burner and there were no immediate plans to make them mandatory at lower levels.

I know you should leave the avionics purchase as late as possible but at some stage you have to commit. So I went ahead and bought a Garmin SL30. Since I won't have my permit issue till some time next year (hopefully), it would now appear that I have wasted GBP3000......

Now, I am building an RV10 intended for long-range and (potentially) IFR. I also have a GNS430 fittted which does have 8.33hz. It therefore seems nuts to me that I cannot fit a 25hz radio as a standby - it must be better than no radio at all! Also, a one year deadline in the homebuild world is clearly ridiculous. Of course, I could always pull and collar the CB for permit issue/annuals but then I risk being prosecuted for using an "unapproved" radio.

Someone please tell me I don't have a GBP3000 doorstop!

[Ian Melville]

It therefore seems nuts to me that I cannot fit a 25hz radio as a standby

Who would you talk to? Everyone else will be on 8.33 channels, including ATC

[Gerry Holland]

Surely Ian the date for implementation for below 19,500 feet is January 1st 2018.
Final Phase of IR No 1079/2012 – Below FL195 Civil Aircraft
All aircraft, that are equipped with radios, to be capable of 8.33 kHz channel spacing capability.
1 January 2018
Ground Stations
All VHF frequency assignments to be converted to 8.33 kHz channel spacing, (not applicable to a small number of specific frequencies). 31 December 2018
State Aircraft
All aircraft, equipped with radios, to be capable of 8.33kHz channel spacing.31 December 2018

Needs consideration but not panic.
Gerry

[paul330]

On the first point, I would have access to 1/3rd of available frequencies so the chances are I could talk to someone - 118.75 is still useable when it becomes 118.750....... Also, 121.5 would be available.

As for the implimentation date, the Feb LAA magazine says that only 8.33mhz radios will be approved for NEW INITIAL permit issues after Nov 13. So, if you are flying already, you are good till end 17, otherwise new fits must be 8.33 compatible after November. Perhaps someone at LAA could confirm if I have understood this correctly?

The bottom line is that the mandarins at EASA obviously have no inkling of the realities of home-building and the time-scales involved.

[Brian Hope]

Hi Paul, John Brady, who wrote the 8.33 piece in the February magazine, has confirmed that currently fitted non 8.33 radios are OK until the end of 2017, after which date they may no longer be used. He did comment that concessions on dates were possible but not to count on it.
There are currently a number of 8.33 sets on the market and choice will almost certainly get larger as time goes on. Trig and Funkwerk are currently at the bargain basement end of the market at around £1200 incl vat and prices go up through the roof from there. Icom's IC-A6E and A24E (with VOR) have 8.33 capability from around £250 but are approved for ground use only.
Like many LAAers I have a perfectly serviceable Mode C transponder and a 760 radio fit, both of which I will eventually have to consign to the bin. If I decide to replace them, the cost, even fitting them myself and buying the lowest cost options, represents about 25% of the value of my aircraft, yet I will see absolutely no benefit from the hassle and expense. Way beyond a joke I feel.

[Ian Melville]

Sorry Paul, I was thinking about after full implementation.

I understood that 8.22 used channel numbers, not frequencies, so you would need a conversion chart for those that matched.

Brian, Can they be 'fitted' before first permit issue?

[Brian Hope]

Hi Ian, I'm afraid not because the wording is pretty clear - From 17 Nov 2013 no aircraft may receive an initial CofA or Permit unless any radios fitted are 8.33 capable.
To be honest those building are better off than those of us already flying, unless of course they have already bought a 760, they at least don't have to bin a perfectly serviceable radio they paid good money for.

[Nick Allen]

From a conversation with our engineer yesterday, it seems that the US of A is sticking with the existing freqency spacing...so we can sell our radios there when we have to replace them!

[Ian Melville]

Thanks Brian, I am not affected as I have no radio yet, just raising a question others may ask.

[paul330]

Aaaargh! - it gets worse! Even if you could sell your SL30/40 in the US, the new Garmin units are larger and not pin compatible so a refit and re-wire would be needed.

Are there any plans for the LAA to challenge these deadlines or even the whiole principle? Or at the least, allow dispensations on the initial issue deadline for those who have already bought and fitted 25hz radios. I can't believe that LAR, approach and tower frequencies need to be 8.33 spaced. If nothing else, there is the safety aspect of attempting to remember, read back and set the extra digits whilst flying at lower levels. I use these frequencies at higher levels all the time and, believe me, when you get something like 127.257 it's extremely easy to get it wrong, especially if it comes with any additional heading, altitude or squawk.

[tnowak]

I think the issue is also to do with interference from "old standard" 25KHz channel spacing radios affecting "new standard", adjacent, 8.33 KHz channels. Unfortunately, when a new standard is introduced everyone has to comply...
I suppose someone could have come up with a frequency allocation plan, to mitigate against these interference issues (for a few years), but clearly that wasn't on the "agenda".
Tony Nowak

[paul330]

I understand that we have to move on. However, the haste with which this move is being implimented simply causes severe financial penalties for me - and I assume, others.

All I am looking for is to get a few years use out of my radio. It would be nice to actually get the aircraft flying before I have to rip out half the wiring to comply with a new EU directive!

[John Brady]

At the NC last week-end I gave a brief on how the frequency arrangement for 8.33 radios works for both 25 and 8.33 spacing. I will write it up and put it in the magazine for your info.

The rules are indeed as per the last magazine article.

John

[paul330]

Funny how things work out. I advertised in VansAirForce and instantly got hits. So it looks like I will upgrade to a 255 and take a (smaller) loss. So if any of you want to do the same, it looks like that is the place to go - provided you don't start to undercut me!

[mike newall]

If you are saving pennies - you need the 225A...........

That's what I'm getting