Rally 2013

[Jeremy Liber]

I flew in to the Rally on Saturday and had a very pleasant time indeed. Lots of aeroplanes there but there was a very relaxed feel about the whole thing which was just what was required. Met lots of old friends and had a thoroughly good time.

All credit to the very small team (4) that made this all happen so slickly; well done guys and gal and you have my thanks for a superb event.

Jeremy

[ivanmanley]

I enjoyed myself too. Flew in Friday in an L4 Cub and camped.

Seem to be much fewer pictures on the web this year? Struggling to find any in fact!

Ivan

[P5151]

I always enjoy the rally, Friday was quite a good day, Saturday excellent, sunday arrivals a bit low. As usual I am very grateful to all those who volunteer to help and it was good to meet old friends.

I hate to complain but charging a tenner for the public to get non airside and the a further tenner to go airside is not going to win us any friends. Also changing the policy to charge aircraft daily that fly in on three separate days is going to result in less turning up on a daily basis. People come to meet old friends and see the aeroplanes, if they don't fly in there is nothing to see........end result no rally.

So, although I am a great supporter of the rally I for one will not invite non member friends there as I did this year, nor will will I fly in every day of the rally if this policy is continued into next year.

Steve Arnold

[mikehallam]

I thank the hard workers and organisers some of whom will already be preparing for us to enjoy 2014 too.

Fun & an excellent day altogether, thanks, for us was on Friday, chosen as usual to avoid the crush over Pitsford with folk at all speeds and heights plus the parallel downwinders and those cutting up others on base or finals. Was a bit of that Fri. but one half expects it and for once the RT was free from morons telling us their life history !

As for fees, well I got in 1/2 price (£5) being as recommended by the LAA two in one a/c, so perhaps you should have brought your guests in by air.

I suppose if £10 per day was a bit steep you could have wangled multiple arrivals on your chosen day, ferrying them in dribs & drabs from a nearby airfield. Come to think of it the fuel cost would have been greater.
But tell me where else could you have gone for much less per arrival and lucky then to buy your £100 sandwich, without all the show ?

BTW. The LAA Rally isn't free to organise, even if many kind enthusiasts turn out to labour all day and that includes those insufficiently loaded to have a 'plane themselves. I think you're a lucky pilot to be able to afford to fly there several times in the w/end.

mike hallam

[ChampChump]

With regard to charges, I thought the tenner covered the whole weekend for flyerists.

Lots of feedback on the Flyer forum, by the way.

[P5151]

To put my points into context. Last year I flew in three days in my RV9. The first day I brought my wife an LAA joint member, the second I brought a fellow LAA member, the third I brought another LAA member. Total landing costs a tenner.

This year I flew in with a friend an LAA member on Friday, cost a 10.
Saturday, I drove in with my nephew and a Chinese friend who is doing a Doctorate in Aeronautics. I of course got in for free as I but had to pay 10 to get my nephew non airside, a further 10 to get him airside, the same again for my Chinese friend, thats a total of 40 for the saturday. I paid for my nephew because he is through no fault of his own unemployed. He has been helping me finish my RV4 so a favor returned.

Sunday I flew in.... another 10 please? So the entire weekend cost me 40 rather than 10 the previous year, but the event made 60 out of me, because I wanted to introduce two new people to the LAA.

Now, I was on the EC for over 10 years, ran the security at Wroughton, Cranfield and Kemble for several years and have been a party to all the arguments for and against charges, so know all the ins and out of this. To say I am an LAA supporter is a massive understatement.

I don't think anyone would mind paying 10 to go airside, but the charge for the public of 10 just to go through the static display really was a poor decision as many would be asking what they had paid for. Effectively they would be paying to go shopping for things they had no interest in buying unless they were to join and start building.


Again massive thanks to all those who gave up their time for the event and to the organizers, this will hopefully be taken as constructive criticism from someone who has been there, done that, and wishes the LAA to grow. If the effect of their charging policy has made someone like me feel bitter something is wrong.

[Brian Hope]

Hi Steve, I think you've got the wrong end of the stick re charging. Firstly the £10 for non members to arrive by road is the same as it has been since we re-introduced the Rally five years ago, as has the £5 for members. The event is primarily a members Rally and we decided from the outset that members should be permitted to go airside for free as a benefit for their support of LAA. The £10 per day airside access fee for non-members has also been kept exactly as it was five years ago.
I'm not convinced that those charges are unreasonable, they are certainly more than reasonable compared to many events. Moto GP was on at Silverstone the same weekend, the average admission price was £65 per person. The NEC bike show will cost you £17 plus £8 to park - more if you don't buy your ticket in advance. RIAT was £45 Saturday and £40 Sunday. Expo was £15 and you couldn't go airside.
And it didn't actually cost you £60 to get into the Rally, you paid £60 for four people to get into the Rally. £20 of that was for two landings, the same as you would pay to go to Sywell on any two days of the year even if there was absolutely nothing going on there. The Rally was a free bonus! Sorry Steve but we have kept prices as reasonable as we can, the old Rallies lost the Association a fortune and we are not going down that road again.
We will be looking at the landing fee issue, charging for each day was not what was intended and was introduced without our knowledge this year. Maybe Sywell will agree to go back to the original one fee for three days arrangement.

[Nigel Ramsay]

Steve,
Good to see you at the Rally by the way

Further to Brian's post, I too think you got it wrong re non-members; it's worth pointing out that actual non-member numbers were up 500 on last year (whilst members by road were actually down although I don't have the numbers). It was in fact another record for total numbers by air and by road.

I too didn't realise Sywell were going to charge for each day by air and we will be looking at that when we have our wash-up meeting with Mike Bletsoe-Brown in the near future.

We'd like to see you again so I suppose one of us will have to let you know about charging next year......

[Rob Swain]

Went to the rally on saturday and had a very nice time - met up with a number of bods who I'd not seen in a while (some of whom were from my home airfield)!
Thanks are due to Brian and the rest of the crew for organising the event.

Regarding the £10 landing fee, I've never flown into the rally on more than one day, so it's always been one landing for me. Didn't realise that in the past I could keep coming back with no further fees, or that it had changed this year.

However, I can't say I'm bothered it has changed, partly because I only fly in once, but also because I don't expect Sywell to be a charity - 10 quid is a reasonable landing fee, especially if it gives access to the show for me and any passengers.
Quite frankly, if people can afford the fuel to keep flitting home and back, they can afford an extra £10!

[P5151]

Rob

With respect you are rather missing the point...... it seems that from answers from Brian and Nigel LAA were unaware of the change in charging....... I suspect a lot of members who flew in more than once will have a bit of a shock when a bill for the extra landings arrives at their door. The only reason we found out is because we went and booked in again on our second arrival.

What I can and cannot afford is none of your concern, what should be of concern is Sywell ramping up the charges without notification. They make a lot of money out of our rally ans apparently want a lot more.

Have you heard..... average wages have dropped by 30 a week...... my pension has been frozen for the last 4 years, but Sywell can increase their income apparently without consultation. To be honest I would rather spend my tenner on fuel than landing anywhere!!


Nigel good to see you too, Brian I dodged you had a long walk round!!

[Rob Swain]

Dear P5151.

Regarding your comment about people getting charged for landings after the event - I don't see that point being made before, so it is quite understandable that I missed it!
It is difficult to see how anybody following normal aviation etiquette / rules could avoid knowing they had to pay more than once as, even if not expecting to pay again, it is still encumbent upon the captain of the aircraft to book in - at which point they are asked for the landing fee!

To fly a plane and complain you are skint is more than a tad disingenuous.

As regards your statements on your financial situation: they are neither germaine nor appropriate.

[P5151]

Rob,

You better have a word with the Captain of the aeroplane then, I will tell him what you think, I can guess what his opinion of your thoughts will be. He is not skint by the way he is quite well off........however, we both think its wrong to change the rules without telling anyone.

If you cant see the problem with this I cant help you further.

For my part I will now fly in just one day and then drive for any others so that will be one aeroplane less on the ground for two of the days. In fact because of your replies I may not even go.

Have you even considered that this may be the thin edge of the wedge and the next thing they could do is to start charging overnight parking for those who camp at the event....... perhaps they have already decided to do this. Bottom line is that the LAA rally is a good earner for Sywell, they would never get up to 1000 aircraft there in three days, now they are not only being fed by the LAA but having a nibble at the fingers as well.

[Brian Hope]

Hi Steve, I think we are getting to the point where we are making a mountain out of a molehill. It may well have been no more than a misunderstanding between Sywell staff that lead to people being charged for a return visit, as I said earlier we do not yet know what went wrong. As an ex-policeman you should know we do innocent until proven guilty in the UK so let's give Sywell the benefit of the doubt until we know the full facts.
Yes Sywell do well out of the Rally but they also take the largest financial risk. We also do OK and more than meet the board's remit of not putting the Association's funds at risk. It is a good relationship from which we both benefit and I think your negativity towards our hosts is unwarranted.
We had a Rally wash-up meeting today and the charging issue is on our list of items to bring up when we have our meeting with the Sywell management. As yet I do not know when that meeting will be but as soon as we have discussed the matter I will report back.

[P5151]

Brian

Thanks for this response. I am glad to hear it is being discussed.

I suspect that if what the lady who charged us on the second arrival is right that a few more members will make comment on this as she said Sywell would be sending out bills. It would no doubt take a few weeks for them to do that.

BTW I am not negative about Sywell I think its a great airfield and a good venue for the rally, what I am negative about is them apparently changing the rules without discussion or prior notification.

[Trevor Harvey]

Well, I enjoyed my first visit to the Rally, no complaints, flew in on Friday, camped 2 nights & out on what was a very windy up north Sunday. I had a great weekend. Well done to the organisers. Most airfields I know of charge something for overnight parking. Most? Charge for another landing the next day. £10 for 3days camping/parking/airside can't be bad, or have I missed something?
I enjoyed my first flights of 270nm+ I got some experience of horrendous crosswind landing, I know what it feels like to get shot at for two hours by anti aircraft fire over the Borders, & a big thank you to the kind gentlemen at Eshott who helped us get much needed fuel, 54 knots GS, 90knot airspeed!
And I have even more respect for the Emeraude.
I'll be back!!