Southend Controlled Airspace

[John Price]

Hi all,

Well its that time when Southend has decided to go for Controlled Airspace.

Please follow the link: http://www.southendairport.com/news/con ... rspace/#my view

This should make the already difficult airspace in the South East, worse.

John.

[Bob F]

John,
It was always "only a matter of time" once easyJet started ops from there.
Just wait for all the justifications they will put forward & then look at the reality.
Déjà vu Norwich?
Bob

[John Price]

Hi Bob,

I have a Europa at Rochester, so this is quite close and will probably cause issues.

John.

[ChampChump]

From only a very quick run through the proposals, from their bar graphs I get this:

40000 movements in 2007 & about
27000 movements currently.

From their projections, the 2020 movements are expected to be the same as in 2012, albeit with a slight bias to ATM.

On those numbers alone, I cannot see that their proposals really make sense, unless they are admitting they haven't been able to cope in the last 6 years.

Or I've misread the graphics. It was a very quick scan.

[mike newall]

Fight the good fight.....

Let's look at the last two.

Humberside and Norwich.

Both parochial regional airports with minimal movements.

Now they have controlled airspace which compromise the last of the free airspace in the East.

Southend will just make things even worse.

Until decisions are made about expansion of, or additions to London's major airfields, adding more controlled airspace in the South East will be detrimental to the safe operation of light aeroplanes.

As a Captain at a large UK airline, I personally don't have an issue with operating into airfields without controlled airspace - the local radar provide good service, the number of times we operate are low and I wouldn't feel any different if they had controlled airspace around them.

As a private pilot, it makes day to day flying more complicated, less easy and certainly no more safe.

[Alan Kilbride]

I know you meant Doncaster Robin Hood Mike, but I want to be a pedantic litttle shhh.....
Humberside don't have controlled airspace.

[Bob F]

Alan,

Don't be giving Humberside any ideas!

Bob

[mike newall]

Alan,

Kirmington were proposing and I thought obtained some controlled airspace.

I know Finningley got it on their 3 movements a week basis which was so very valid.

Having operated out of Kirmington Parochial Airstrip in an Airbus, I wasn't unduly worried about being in un controlled airspace.

I had Swalty's Dornier on box 2 parachuting at Hibaldstow, I had 121.5 on box 3 - man - we were sorted !!!!

[James Chan]

As a Cessna 172 / PA28 private pilot operating out of North Weald, the controlled airspace being proposed should not affect me personally.

I see it is Class D so I should be able to get clearance through it - just like every other piece of controlled airspace that I have used in the UK and abroad.

[Alan Kilbride]

Aren't you the lucky one James?
I have been refused Class D transits on several occasions and having questioned it by landline at a later time found no justification for refusal 75% of the time. Not me saying it, but the people at NATS who intimated they would have a word.

4 Budgies and a Dragonfly doesn't justify Class D.

I have had nothing but a friendly and efficient service from Southend, but worry that increasing profit making for Airlines who won't compensate the users of what would have remained Class G even though they are taking something for nothing.

This will make it harder and increase infringements for the 30-100 hr "basic" PPL's who travel North to South. Trying to justify it by telling us we can always go and buy this gizmo and that gizmo won't wash either.

Getting rid of some of the Walter Mitty Class D would be a start.

[James Chan]

Perhaps I have indeed been lucky, but I don't recall of an occasion in the 4 years / 300 hours I have been flying where I have been unreasonably refused access to airspace.

but worry that increasing profit making for Airlines who won't compensate the users of what would have remained Class G even though they are taking something for nothing.

I fear more for access to the aerodrome itself. For e.g. East Midlands has plenty of available runway capacity. Yet their charges for the landing, navigation, overnight parking and mandatory handling is £106 inc. VAT for a Cessna 152 or equivalent.

By first preserving access to aerodromes, hopefully access to airspace should naturally follow.

[Alan Kilbride]

Access to mainland Europe without increasing bottle necks would be nice.
D318,Stansted,London City and Luton, and now Southend.
I don't understand why you are quoting East Mids prices James, I don't have to go there, but have to transit Southend going to France.

[James Chan]

Alan,

I quoted East Midlands as an example of an aerodrome where their prices have shot up significantly since a bit more CAT came in. However the runway is far from being full or busy.

This creates a dividing wall between CAT and GA. What's needed I think is better integration in both airspace and aerodromes as has been demonstrated better abroad.

And some of us will want to fly the most direct/fuel-efficient routes to go where we want to go, such as you needing to transit Southend.

I've had refusals for transits too, but I've taken the (slightly too optimistic?) view that it's been too busy inside to accommodate me safely. I've also on one or two occasions been asked to wait outside for a short moment before clearance is granted.

I'm also told that the CAA asks ANSPs to log transit refusals with the view of ensuring access to airspace is preserved through adequate controlling resources etc. Perhaps I think the opposite of that of no CAS - just see-and-avoid, would have an increased risk of mid-air collision around the busy aerodrome.

[Chris Martyr]

James seems to have 'Yuri Gellered' this thread away from what it was originally about, and steered it towards the idea that he flies through Class D and why don't we all just follow suit.
Firstly, I'm not one of these 'flat-earther' types who will gladly fly the length and breadth of the country and speak to nobody at all. But I also don't subscribe to the notion of flying a nominal sector and speaking to as many people as possible. I'm sure most of us fall somewhere in between don't we ?
Another noteworthy point is that a comfortable and well equipped Cessna/Piper type is an ocean away from an open cockpit , transponderless classic/vintage , where you read your notes through goggles .

So - Let's get back to what this thread is about shall we ? The justification of Southends air space grab.
At the moment there is little or no justification for it whatsoever . It is merely the latest in the ever-growing casebook of airfields that are suffering that most hideous of medical conditions, Heathrowitis.
It is not a nice condition to be diagnosed with, and without prompt remedial intervention can become fatal. Just look at that incredibly [not] busy airport, Kent International, and what a narrow escape it had. Also the ones that Mike Newall mentioned that have become a little too puffed up with their own importance. Of course we can all call up for a transit through Class D , but these propositions from Southend are a bit like putting a barbed wire fence around an empty field aren't they !

[James Chan]

I'm guessing that Southend's claim of 600,000+ passengers enplaned in 2012 is the justification for the airspace change proposal.

In 'GA heaven' USA, I've discovered it takes only 250,000 passengers enplaned per annum for an aerodrome to qualify for Class C airspace - and that's with a standard 5nm ring and a 10nm outer ring.

I'm afraid I don't know enough where the FAA gets this '250,000' number from or what other numbers the UK CAA uses, but I presume an aviation professional/expert can answer that.