Group rules - necessity for equal shares?

[2greens1red]

Could anyone direct me to the rules (LAA? CAA?) for group ownership of permit a/c?

Our questions include:

1) Do members of the group need to have equal financial shares? A potential group member may have reduced opportunity to help with the build or flying - and therefore half a 'share' might be fairer. More generally, what is a 'share'?

2) Can one member contribute their technical/engineering knowledge and skills to the build in place of a financial contribution?

Thanks.

[johnmichie]

Richard

the rules are whatever the group decides, you can give them away for nothing if that's what you all want. Whatever you decide, write it all down, including behaviour expected, sanctions for misbehaviour, financial arrangements, arrangements for a member leaving or the group folding, coverage of insurance excess, etc.

John

[2greens1red]

Thanks, John.

We've put together a group agreement and set of rules, which has grown to 7 pages, and hopefully covers the points you've mentioned.

Somewhere, in the depths of my unreliable memory, there's a rule about not more than 20 group members, each of whom must 'own' at least 5% of the aircraft. ANO 2009 springs to mind, probably erroneously.

I'm not sure what 'own' and 5% implies; a financial share?

Does this still apply?

[Steve Brown]

Have a look at CAP393

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP393.pdf


Para 269
Section 1 part 34 page 4

You need a GPS to navigate the ANO.

Regards
Steve

[2greens1red]

You're right about the navigation, Steve. This looks to be the relevant section (p.212?):

Public transport and aerial work – exceptions – jointly owned aircraft

269 (1) A flight is a private flight if the aircraft falls within paragraph (2) and the only valuable
consideration given or promised for the flight or the purpose of the flight falls within
paragraph (3).

(2) An aircraft falls within this paragraph if it is owned:

(a) jointly by persons (each of whom is a natural person) who each hold not less than
a 5% beneficial share and:
(i) the aircraft is registered in the names of all the joint owners; or
(ii) the aircraft is registered in the name or names of one or more of the joint
owners as trustee or trustees for all the joint owners and written notice has
been given to the CAA of the names of all the persons beneficially entitled
to a share in the aircraft; or

(b) by a company in the name of which the aircraft is registered and the registered
shareholders of which (each of whom is a natural person) each hold not less than
5% of the shares in that company.

(3) Valuable consideration falls within this paragraph if it is given or promised by one or
more of the joint owners of the aircraft or registered shareholders of the company
which owns the aircraft and is either or both:

(a) in respect of and no greater than the direct costs of the flight; or
(b) in respect of the annual costs.


So, if I've unraveled the jargon correctly, it doesn't look as though we can decide what we want, and each member has to have at least a 5% share. Which leads me to ask, out of curiousity, how the 20+ groups operate.....and what is a natural person? Those of the canine persuasion can't join?

[Steve Brown]

Ref last para

Larger than 20 person groups must be Public Transport (ie not Private) CofA aircraft - ie definitely not a Permit aircraft - unless perhaps special permission is given by CAA - if that is somewhere (embedded deep in the ANO) in their gift??

Too early in the morning and too late in my life to philosophize on the CAA's interpretation of natural persons I'm afraid

Regards
Steve

[2greens1red]

OK, thanks.

Correction to my comment above, it looks as though we can allocate shares as we choose, and vary the proportion, subject to the min. 5% and the not-more-than-20 rule.