Farnborough Controlled Airspace

[John Price]

Hi All,

I've just seen the proposed CAS that Farnborough want.

I think they either have a great sense of humour or lost their minds!

A map is on the 'Flyer forum'

The consultation starts Monday.

http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=87823

John.

[James Chan]

I note the proposed growth of more Class A airspace at higher altitudes to the south, perhaps on the principle that "I'm guessing there's probably not a lot there right now, so let's try and permanently exclude VFR traffic forevermore".

Lessons for airspace grabs are still not being learned in this particular area.

My own view is that if airports who have a sense of self-importance (Farnborough's landing and overnight parking fee for a 757kg aircraft totals £464 inc. VAT!) actually made better use of their unused runway capacity by enabling more people to fly in and stay overnight etc. at more affordable prices, then I'd be more likely to embrace airspace change proposals such as this as we would be sharing airspace and airports better rather than creating a 'us-and-them' mentality.

[Bob F]

It does appear that you are not a real airport unless you have your own CAS.
Anyone know the answer to this?

Do airports that have CAS have to pay for it and all the consultation and implementation costs?

[Tom Beck]

The operator of Farnborough Airport, TAG Farnborough, has begun the formal process of applying for an Airspace Change Proposal (ACP). These proposals directly affect current controlled and uncontrolled airspace across a huge area of Southern England and not only in the immediate vicinity of Farnborough Airport.

If approved, this airspace would extend out as far as Reading and Aldermaston to the NW, all the way from Farnborough to the Solent,along the South coast including some of the IOW to as far as Shoreham and well beyond Guildford to the East. This will effectively close off the VFR route around the West side of the London CTR while creating a number of dangerous 'pinch points' where the risk of a mid air collision will be greatly increased.

The base of many areas of existing airspace would be lowered and a large area of new airspace would be introduced. Their plans represent the most substantial redesign and increase of controlled airspace in the UK for many years.

Please see the following link for the latest grab for what is currently open FIR and belongs to all of us.
http://www.consultation.tagfarnborough.com.

[ROB THOMASSON]

Looks like they've been talking to Southend! Like all things that are free everyone wants a big piece. Now if they had to pay for it then things would be different I think.

[Nigelcot]

Waded through the document, to me the only obvious conclusion to their own arguments is that Farnborough is in far too congested an area to operate any other than very occasional IFR traffic due to its proximity to Heathrow and Gatwick.
Far from giving it control over an area north of Heathrow to south of Gatwick and the south coast and closing the south east to VFR traffic its airspace should be restricted to an ATZ and expansion of IFR arrivals and departures severely restricted , it is already a very congested area and to restrict the east west corridor to about 3 miles wide shows the contempt they have for the VFR pilot.

[jedser]

Hi All

Does anyone know if CAS has to be paid for by the airports? If not, knowing that our government is always looking for an opportunity to raise tax, why not put the problem of too much CAS together with not enough income from aviation and then get together to lobby the government to tax CAS? Any ideas as to how to go about this?

John

[James Chan]

and then get together to lobby the government to tax CAS? Any ideas as to how to go about this?

Wouldn't the airports simply pass their increased costs onto the user, i.e. us?

[Nigelcot]

Yes in all probability, however the types who are prepared to pay Farnborough's current fees can cough up if they want to close the South East to VFR traffic alternatively they could use another airfield with less impact on others thereby forcing Farnborough to give up the airspace or go bust.
Seems like a good solution to me.

[James Chan]

Yeah, but then you've got Isle of Man, Channel Islands, Liverpool, Bournemouth, Southend, and quite a few others who also have or are in the process of applying for controlled airspace.

I think I'd prefer not have my landing & navigation fees increased as a result of this new tax.

[John Price]

Hi,

I think that charging for CAS is the wrong way to go. I think that it may be a ' be careful what you wish for' issue. If the airport is having to pay for CAS it will make sure that its customers get the maximum benefit first. GA will come a long way down the list of priorities.

The most logical way would be to levy a tax on CTR/CTA usage i.e. you pay per cubic meter per movement per day. So that highly utilised CAS that is relatively small pays nothing whilst underutilised airspace pays a levy.

I don't think anyone would disagree that if you have a lot of CAT movements into an airport there should be CAS to protect its movements. In that case they pay nothing for example Gatwick.

On the other hand a massive CTR/CTA at Doncaster with little or no movements would pay substantially.

In that case they would welcome GA with big open arms just to get there movements up so as to reduce their CAS levy.

My thoughts feel free to comment.

John.

PS Cut and pasted from another thread but still the same issue.

[Brian Hope]

I agree with John that whilst charging for controlled airspace sounds like a relatively simple way to get airports to be more frugal with their demands, the idea is fraught with potential unintended consequences. GA would certainly be charged to use the airspace, and that leads very neatly into charging for air traffic services - a regular gripe against GA by the airlines because we do not have to pay en route charges and they do. And culturally there is a view that if you pay to have something it belongs to you, clearly not a good attitude to promote regarding airspace.
Airspace is also designed around regulations, which make the current grab by Southend in particular so unreasonable. The entire airspace regime is changing under FAS (the Future Airspace Strategy), the primary goals being to do away with holds and complex arrival and departure procedures in favour of continued climb outs on track and straight in descents for landings. The concept is for better use of the airspace, greater fuel efficiency and a lower environmental impact. The Southend and Farnborough airspace is not designed to what will become the new ‘standard’, in fact they go against it so they should be kicked into touch until the air traffic system has been reconfigured to accept their requirements. Their low level operations can then be designed into much smaller areas of controlled airspace which have significantly less impact on other airspace users – and meet the environmental aims of FAS.
I don't want to worry fellow south-easterners too much but Stagecoach has recently bought Manston and my guess is they don't want it for a bus station. How long before they too join the 'London Regional Airport' fiasco and seek controlled airspace for fanciful projected traffic densities?

[ChampChump]

Lorry International v Bus International. Hmm. The irony would be more amusing were it not for being far too close to both and all that entails, or might entail in the latter case.

[John Price]

Hi Nic,

Based at Rochester. Know what you mean!

John.

[Brian Hope]

Two meetings planned about the Farnborough proposal.

Lasham Gliding Society, Lasham Airfield, GU34 7SS is holding a meeting on Sunday 23 March starting at 1pm. As there press release says:

Want to know more about what Farnborough want? Then come to the meeting.
Want to find out how it might affect you? Then come to the meeting.
Want to know how to make an effective input to the consultation process? Then come to the meeting.

For details on Lasham Airfield, visit www.lashamgliding.com
To fly in – PPR on 01256 384900 (free landing for those flying in for the meeting)

AND

Farnborough ATC and management staff will be visiting White Waltham at 18:30 on Wednesday 26th March to give a presentation and a Q & A session on the proposed changes to the airspace.