I know Brian is about, but I see not too many other EC members have registered.
I know that they may be lurking as guests. I think they should be encouraged to join the list. Then we have a simple way to contact them.
Likewise I see not a single member of the engineering staff has registered...
Regards
Where are the EC Members hiding ?
Moderators: John Dean, Moderator
Where are the EC Members hiding ?
Peter Diffey
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I agree with your thoughts, Pete - it would be good to hear more from EC members on here.
However, I think we have to remember that if an EC member is to do his fair share on the committee, it involves giving up a huge proportion of his free time. Perhaps expecting them to give even more time involving themselves regularly on the BB is expecting too much. Most have families to keep happy and a job to go to.
Looking quickly at the memberlist, I see at least 3 of the EC have registered.
However, I think we have to remember that if an EC member is to do his fair share on the committee, it involves giving up a huge proportion of his free time. Perhaps expecting them to give even more time involving themselves regularly on the BB is expecting too much. Most have families to keep happy and a job to go to.
Looking quickly at the memberlist, I see at least 3 of the EC have registered.
Well, Graham Newby has responded to a few posts.
Until EC members are allowed to use their discretion on what they pass on, there will always be a worry that any particular item is not ready to be promulgated.
I think it's regrettable that more of the things under consideration by EC are not given an airing - it would avoid embarrassing situations developing, and allow greater member participation in what is, after all, our own association.
It would be perfectly feasible to have a 'members' only area on this BB where these internal matters could be usefully aired, but not viewable by guests. There could even be separate forums (fora) for each sub-committee.
No doubt the future role of the NC could be very fruitfully discussed here - I understand not a lot is happening within the working party.
BTW I'm not trying to get at anyone over that - we all have our busy moments or months.
Until EC members are allowed to use their discretion on what they pass on, there will always be a worry that any particular item is not ready to be promulgated.
I think it's regrettable that more of the things under consideration by EC are not given an airing - it would avoid embarrassing situations developing, and allow greater member participation in what is, after all, our own association.
It would be perfectly feasible to have a 'members' only area on this BB where these internal matters could be usefully aired, but not viewable by guests. There could even be separate forums (fora) for each sub-committee.
No doubt the future role of the NC could be very fruitfully discussed here - I understand not a lot is happening within the working party.
BTW I'm not trying to get at anyone over that - we all have our busy moments or months.
032505
I guess that folks who access this BB are probably a fairly typical cross section of the membership, it is thus reasonable to assume that comments expressed are also typical of the membership.
I would expect that EC members would view this BB, so that they are abreast of member concerns.
A quick "Hi, yep I will raise this at the next EC meeting" would be a step forward. Follow up comment of course would be nice.
I don't hold the view that "EC members are too busy", if they are not doing the bidding of the members and not in touch with the members, why exactly are they on the EC.
I am sure most folks get themselves on the EC to serve the members, not for personal motives. They should thus avail themselves of the best methods of keeping their fingers on the membership pulse
I would expect that EC members would view this BB, so that they are abreast of member concerns.
A quick "Hi, yep I will raise this at the next EC meeting" would be a step forward. Follow up comment of course would be nice.
I don't hold the view that "EC members are too busy", if they are not doing the bidding of the members and not in touch with the members, why exactly are they on the EC.
I am sure most folks get themselves on the EC to serve the members, not for personal motives. They should thus avail themselves of the best methods of keeping their fingers on the membership pulse
Peter Diffey
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[I guess that folks who access this BB are probably a fairly typical cross section of the membership, it is thus reasonable to assume that comments expressed are also typical of the membership.]
This may be confirmed one way or another when the results of the members survey is published but a straw poll taken at the recent Devon Strut AGM suggests not. This forum is considered a useful route for sharing practical information (which hopefully will be retained as an archive) but the majority of members I have spoken to have little time for the petty whinging and pontificating that goes on here.
This may be confirmed one way or another when the results of the members survey is published but a straw poll taken at the recent Devon Strut AGM suggests not. This forum is considered a useful route for sharing practical information (which hopefully will be retained as an archive) but the majority of members I have spoken to have little time for the petty whinging and pontificating that goes on here.
Hi Mike,
In the time honoured way that people always try to deflect good argument, you are splitting out a small part of the message and using that to undermine the general thrust of my question which in case it has become blurred, it is simple - Why don't most EC members and Engineering ever look at the BB.
Let's say EC members and Engineers should be banned from accessing the BB,. That would clearly be daft, so is the general thrust of my original argument so wrong, would we the members like to see EC and Eng participating on this BB.
Is it the case that you would like to see all comment regarding the way the LAA is run filtered via the Strut coordinators with all the associated time delays and distortion of messages. Or would you like to see folk's legitimate beefs addressed quickly.
Belittling people's often well thought out comments as "pontification" well, aren't folks allowed to think outside of the corporate box. If someone has a clear view of what needs doing, he should be encouraged to speak his mind not told to shut up.
In the time honoured way that people always try to deflect good argument, you are splitting out a small part of the message and using that to undermine the general thrust of my question which in case it has become blurred, it is simple - Why don't most EC members and Engineering ever look at the BB.
Let's say EC members and Engineers should be banned from accessing the BB,. That would clearly be daft, so is the general thrust of my original argument so wrong, would we the members like to see EC and Eng participating on this BB.
Is it the case that you would like to see all comment regarding the way the LAA is run filtered via the Strut coordinators with all the associated time delays and distortion of messages. Or would you like to see folk's legitimate beefs addressed quickly.
Belittling people's often well thought out comments as "pontification" well, aren't folks allowed to think outside of the corporate box. If someone has a clear view of what needs doing, he should be encouraged to speak his mind not told to shut up.
Peter Diffey
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Phil Burgess
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 5:04 pm
- Location: Lincolnshire
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Brian Hope
- Posts: 1271
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:28 pm
- Location: Sheerness Kent
With regard to the number of members who visit the BB, the survey result shows that 60% never have, and only 24% have within the last six months. Those that visit the website - 84% within the last six months, and only 4% that never have.
You can draw your own conclusions from that, mine, also taking into account members' comments and the low number of posters, is that very few members have much interest in the BB. Why is that? My own experience, again from listening to members and some EC members, is that they can't be bothered to get involved in the whingeing that goes on here. In effect, a minority of posters who do nothing but complain at the slightest opportunity, is giving the board a bad reputation which greatly diminishes its credibility.
The ball lies squarely in the court of those who wish the board to become a credible part of LAA communication. By all means accuse the world and his wife who do not wish to use the board for not understanding it or being Luddites, but that will not alter anything. Accept that there is a problem, maybe more a problem of perception than actuality, but a problem nonetheless, and suggest how it might be resolved, and the board may then be accepted as the useful communication tool it can be.
You can draw your own conclusions from that, mine, also taking into account members' comments and the low number of posters, is that very few members have much interest in the BB. Why is that? My own experience, again from listening to members and some EC members, is that they can't be bothered to get involved in the whingeing that goes on here. In effect, a minority of posters who do nothing but complain at the slightest opportunity, is giving the board a bad reputation which greatly diminishes its credibility.
The ball lies squarely in the court of those who wish the board to become a credible part of LAA communication. By all means accuse the world and his wife who do not wish to use the board for not understanding it or being Luddites, but that will not alter anything. Accept that there is a problem, maybe more a problem of perception than actuality, but a problem nonetheless, and suggest how it might be resolved, and the board may then be accepted as the useful communication tool it can be.
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John Brady
- Posts: 284
- Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 8:39 pm
Interesting (well maybe not) that the whingers and moaners don't think that EC members view the BB. I do. I suspect others do as well. But now that we can post using alias names maybe you don't know who they are. Or maybe they read but don't post so don't need to register. Or maybe they have read and have gone off to get a life. Most of the stuff posted here by the regular inhabitants is complete clap trap anyway and I don't bother to comment as it only generates more clap trap. Nothing wrong with clap trap of course if you happen to like that sort of thing but I find more than a couple of lines of it to make me bored or ANGRY or both.
Anyway I thought I would tell you that I read this thread and did not find anything much of interest. But I don't think that a few BB inhabitants can assume that THEY are statistically representative of the membership of the LAA and their views should drive policy. However, if you want to demonstrate that BB opinion should be the basis for LAA policy and management, stop whinging and start writing. Perhaps you could present your paper at the next NC.
Useful things the BB has done for me are to teach me how to spell "whinging" and more recently "pontificating"
Must go now
Anyway I thought I would tell you that I read this thread and did not find anything much of interest. But I don't think that a few BB inhabitants can assume that THEY are statistically representative of the membership of the LAA and their views should drive policy. However, if you want to demonstrate that BB opinion should be the basis for LAA policy and management, stop whinging and start writing. Perhaps you could present your paper at the next NC.
Useful things the BB has done for me are to teach me how to spell "whinging" and more recently "pontificating"
Must go now
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steveneale
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:00 am
- Location: Bristol'ish
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jamie_duff
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:34 am
- Location: Aberdeenshire
That was highly constructive - thankyouMach2 wrote:Interesting (well maybe not) that the whingers and moaners don't think that EC members view the BB. I do. I suspect others do as well. But now that we can post using alias names maybe you don't know who they are. Or maybe they read but don't post so don't need to register. Or maybe they have read and have gone off to get a life. Most of the stuff posted here by the regular inhabitants is complete clap trap anyway and I don't bother to comment as it only generates more clap trap. Nothing wrong with clap trap of course if you happen to like that sort of thing but I find more than a couple of lines of it to make me bored or ANGRY or both.
Anyway I thought I would tell you that I read this thread and did not find anything much of interest. But I don't think that a few BB inhabitants can assume that THEY are statistically representative of the membership of the LAA and their views should drive policy. However, if you want to demonstrate that BB opinion should be the basis for LAA policy and management, stop whinging and start writing. Perhaps you could present your paper at the next NC.
Useful things the BB has done for me are to teach me how to spell "whinging" and more recently "pontificating"
Must go now
With no strut, and no flyable aircraft to hang about at an airfield with, this forum represents the only contact I have with the LAA membership.
It's quite an isolated existance being a builder and the forum is a good way of reassuring me that my membership fees are for an association, not just an administration.
To put it blunty - this forum is the only "association" I get with other association members.
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jamie_duff
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:34 am
- Location: Aberdeenshire
Hi Rod,
The nearest airport is obviously Dyce, but I'd avoid that unless you don't like money
Insch airstrip, of the Garioch Flying Club is the closest decent sized club airstrip.
Feel free to drop in on your travels if you feel so inclined, and I'd be happy to meet you there (or wherever). I know a few guys at Insch but only really see them at their Annual Inspection time when I tag along with my dad...
The nearest airport is obviously Dyce, but I'd avoid that unless you don't like money
Insch airstrip, of the Garioch Flying Club is the closest decent sized club airstrip.
Feel free to drop in on your travels if you feel so inclined, and I'd be happy to meet you there (or wherever). I know a few guys at Insch but only really see them at their Annual Inspection time when I tag along with my dad...
Brian,
What you say about percentages is probably correct, but that's pretty well true of just about any organization, ie very few folks ever say anything. It's a sad fact of life that many folks are cowed into silence by their mummies and daddies long before they ever reach puberty, I for one am happy to argue the toss about things I care about, and I suspect you are the same.
I did not see this thread as a moan, it was simple expression of hope that more members of the EC and Engineering would make it apparent that they do actually listen and would like to participate.
Now, let's look at how a "nice guy" would have said what Mach2 said,
I think he would have said something like
"Hi, Pete, my name is Xxx, and I am on the EC, I do read the posts, some are useful, some less interesting, be assured that anything that I think should be bought to the attention of the EC will be forwarded post haste"
I am uncertain that I would have cared to characterize all of the contents of the BB as crap, and if Mach2 did not mean all, and he cares to admit some stuff is relevant and useful, would it not be nice of him to post and thank the writer for his valued contribution, or perhaps, and here I am going to be uncharitable, perhaps he filters and passes the good idea on as his own ( we have all come across folks like that haven't we ).
I remain optimistic that more EC members and engineers will get involved via the BB and make the BB a great way for members and representatives to keep in touch and improve the working of our Association.
What you say about percentages is probably correct, but that's pretty well true of just about any organization, ie very few folks ever say anything. It's a sad fact of life that many folks are cowed into silence by their mummies and daddies long before they ever reach puberty, I for one am happy to argue the toss about things I care about, and I suspect you are the same.
I did not see this thread as a moan, it was simple expression of hope that more members of the EC and Engineering would make it apparent that they do actually listen and would like to participate.
Now, let's look at how a "nice guy" would have said what Mach2 said,
I think he would have said something like
"Hi, Pete, my name is Xxx, and I am on the EC, I do read the posts, some are useful, some less interesting, be assured that anything that I think should be bought to the attention of the EC will be forwarded post haste"
I am uncertain that I would have cared to characterize all of the contents of the BB as crap, and if Mach2 did not mean all, and he cares to admit some stuff is relevant and useful, would it not be nice of him to post and thank the writer for his valued contribution, or perhaps, and here I am going to be uncharitable, perhaps he filters and passes the good idea on as his own ( we have all come across folks like that haven't we ).
I remain optimistic that more EC members and engineers will get involved via the BB and make the BB a great way for members and representatives to keep in touch and improve the working of our Association.
Peter Diffey
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