Rally landing fees increased again!

[Nigel Hitchman]

The Website highlights no increase in entry charges for 5 years, yes the entry fee by road is still ridiculously cheap at £5 per member for the whole weekend. But for members (or non members) by air, its gone up again! Yes someone coming once still only pays £10 for them and all in their aircraft, but in the first couple of years, if you came and went on multiple days, you still only paid one £10 fee, then last year you started to get charged for each day separately, but if you gave some rides during the day, you didn't pay again, however I now see the LAA website has this added

“For arrivals by air, camping by your aircraft is included in the one off landing fee of £10 which also covers admission for all on board for three days (note that this fee covers one landing only, additional landings are £10 each). “

and

“One landing fee of £10 covers admission for all on board for three days and camping by your aircraft. PLEASE NOTE ANY FURTHER LANDINGS WILL BE CHARGED.”

So now if I come in on 3 days, I pay £30 and if I take someone for a ride, a pay £10 a time each time!

Now I know that this money goes to Sywell and not the LAA and that this is part of their renumeration for holding the rally, rather than charging us to hire the airfield, but surely they get enough from one landing fee from me over the weekend and don't need to charge for multiple.
Most fly-ins are traditionally no landing fees, which is why people go, yes, the Rally is different and costs money to put on, but why charge more for the aircraft coming in, after all it is these aircraft that people come to the rally to see, we are the rally, without us there is nothing except a few trade stands.

I vote that we increase the fees for members by road, who are generally the spectators at the event, and reduce the fees for the aircraft that are the event! Why on earth is it cheaper to come by road than come by air!?? We should be encouraging people to fly more and give rides, especially in the evening, rather than putting a charge in place.

Yes it probably doesn't effect that many people, most arrive once and then go home. But it just seems the charging basis is just wrong for a fly-in.

[Brian Hope]

Hi Nigel, the trouble is almost any arrangement is going upset somebody. As you say, the average fly-in visitor pays one £10 fee, and I have had people bitch to me about that because they are flying a single seater!
I do agree though that the landing fee being charged each day to those that come and go does seem to be somewhat out of line with what visitos by road pay for the three days. It is something that we will look at again next year.

[Flying John]

Good Heavens - ITS A BARGAIN.

You get to land at an airfield that normally charges £15, for an incredible £10 that pays for you and three passengers to not only land, but get entry to the show AND, if you wish, make use of the campsite and the facilities.

If I show a Classic car I pay £10 for 6hrs, for parking in a car park or a field.

If you want to show of your pride and joy flying machine and get the benefit of all the hard work that LAA management put in to organising it then surely a tenner is good value. For most its a one off, but if you want to fly your friends around in the evenings its right that you pay for the privilige, everyone has to earn a crust.

[Zodiac]

I agree John, Its an absolute bargain when you consider all the costs involved in operating an aircraft of any type these days, and spare a thought for all those people involved in the organization of the event.

As an aside I'm not sure the term "bitch" is an appropriate expression on our forum Brian.

[Chris Martyr]

Inappropriate language on the forum ? and from Brian of all people,

Still at least the landing fee might deter people like that bloody bloke in the J3 from flying over at the crack of dawn shouting 'Wakey Wakey' when you're still trying to nurse the mother of all hangovers .

[Zodiac]

Hehehe, Chris. Hope the head gets better!

[Brian Hope]

Apologies if the word bitch offends, as a noun I agree it is perhaps inappropriate but as a verb I wouldn't have thought so myself.
We did get the usual moans from a few non members about paying to go airside but if they want a better deal getting in then they should join.
I did chat with Nigel about the possibility of allowing members who had already paid on the Friday, some form of access to airside earlier that normal opening time on Saturday and Sunday. I believe we might be able to do something on this so I will make sure we look at it when we have our post rally wash-up meeting. No promises yet though.

[G-TERN]

Great rally again. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Flew in Fri & Sun. Worth every penny. My heartfelt thanks to EVERYONE involved in the running of the event for us all to enjoy.

[Nigel Hitchman]

Yes it was a great Rally again, I flew in all 3 days and had a great time, some really nice aircraft on show and some of the landings were great entertainment! Shame about the crosswind some of the time, which no doubt deterred some people, particularly in the lighter aircraft.

Back to the fees, yes £30 for 3 days at the Rally is a bargain, I agree. But my main points are why would it have been cheaper to come by road- £5 for 3 days. And why are we deterring people from giving rides. There is obviously a finite cost in putting on the Rally which has to be paid for, my view is more of the charge should be on people who come by road and thus bring nothing, rather than people who fly-in and ARE the Rally. If we didn't fly-in there would be no rally and most of the people coming by road wouldn't bother to come.
Having worked at 20 or so Rallys I know all about the hard work people put in and actually you will all see a lot of my work at the rally, despite not perhaps being considered a worker and other people are being paid to do the same (not necessarily by the LAA)

This is not aero-expo, where you can fly-in to see the exhibition or come by road to see the exhibition, then perhaps you could justify charging as much to come by air.
At the Rally you come to see the aircraft, to meet your friends, to have a good time, most of the people are airside most of the time, the exhibition area in almost incidental. ITs about flying, flying should be encouraged. I used to give loads of rides mostly to volunteer workers, as did several others, but no one does that any more. A £10 landing fee obviously puts you off, but also the slot system and the shorter daylight period at this time of year doesn't help.

I don't know how the finances work, but my vote is to make it one £10 landing fee for members arriving by air and that covers all landings throughout the event. To compensate for the people who now don't pay multiple landing fees, the entry fee for members by road should be increased to the same amount £10. I would imagine this would increase the total revenue and also increase the entertainment for all.

[MikeM]

Another cracking weekend. I know Brian's language can make some people wince but maybe it will moderate now he's come out. https://picasaweb.google.com/1074922911 ... 6081419282

[Chris Martyr]

All joking aside, Nigel does actually raise a very good point.
If you fly in to the rally on day one and then decide to go home and come back next day , then perhaps you should pay another landing fee.
But if you are going off and coming back again in a short timespan , I.E. like flying volunteers for a flight, then you definitely shouldn't pay another landing fee.
Also, loading the costs more towards land based arrivals should certainly outstrip the folk that fly in to the event, because as Nigel points out , if there were no arrivals by air , there wouldn't be an event !

But Mr Wakey-Wakey in the J3 should definitely pay higher landing fees though.

[Flying John]

Whilst I agree, it would be nice to have a system for flying unpaid volunteers (could be "Old Eagles"), I do have an issue with;

At the Rally you come to see the aircraft, to meet your friends, to have a good time, most of the people are airside most of the time, the exhibition area in almost incidental.

I don't. I am not a builder, or someone who has a particular interest in comparing aircraft or judging which one is nicer than the next - its all subjective. I spent 99% of the time around the exhibition, met all friends landside and thought that most people were landside and most spotters were airside. The exhibition is my primary reason to go. Looking at other aircraft, I do when I land away at other airstrips.

Sorry if that's harsh, but I wanted to present the exact opposite view. I think generalisations, both mine and Nigel's are wrong. We all go to the Rally for different reasons and one persons personal benefits and reasons to go, should not be made any the less easy or difficult.

I think that we would all like others to see our flying machines and that the already discounted landing fee for Sywell takes that into account and encourages you to fly in, but its not mandatory and if you want to drive you can leave it in the hangar at home.

Its a bit like taking my Classic car to a show. Its mutually beneficial. The organiser gets a fiver or so from me, I get to see other cars, buy a few parts, eat burgers and drink tea with friends and others can enjoy looking at my and other's cars.

[Brian Hope]

You are right John, there is no one reason everybody goes to the Rally but we do hope they all get what they want from it; we are a diverse bunch and to a large extent that is reflected in the event itself and adds to its ambiance. Mike's picture, which didn't open for me for some reason, was I suspect of me with a sticker on my back that said 'I love Margaret Thatcher' or words to that effect (it sends a shiver down my spine just writing those words!). All part of why I go to the Rally, to enjoy not only seeing so many superb aircraft but also to enjoy the banter with friends, most of whom are more than happy to bait me over my political leanings.
I do have some sympathy with those who fly in and feel they have to pay more that those who arrive by road. Many years ago I wasn't happy that those of us who flew in had to pay so I flew to Calais and then from Calais to Cranfield so I was an International visitor and didn't have to pay, just to make a point. I had Customs crawl all over the aeroplane because they thought I was up to something dodgy! Once I was involved and having to help make the books balance I took a somewhat different view.

Feedback is very helpful, good or bad, and I promise we (the Rally Team) do discuss all that we receive. Naturally we cannot accede to all points of view, both because we are one half of a partnership with Sywell Aerodrome, whose requirements are perhaps a little different to ours, and because we do have to look at the big picture and try to keep everybody happy.
We’re delighted to see so much positive comment on the forums, and to have heard so much from members at the event. That’s due to a lot of hard work from a not particularly large group of volunteers and staff members and we thank them all for their time, effort and enthusiasm. Many come back year on year, and we were pleased that this year we also had quite a good response from our appeal for a few extra helpers. Roll on 2015 when we can do it all again.
One final point. What do members feel about bringing back a few seminars? Personally I’m in two minds whether the demand is there but if we had a small number of high profile speakers and we could pick the right subjects it might prove popular. Let us know what you think.

[James Chan]

I fly a four seater aircraft. My average landing and parking fees paid are about £15-£20 and £15 respectively.

I'd much prefer my AVGAS taxes to entirely fund aviation infrastructure, much like the US funding model, but given I'm told we're never going to get this in the UK, then the aerodrome needs to find ways of meeting its costs.

With the exception of some larger-than-life airports levying fees and handling fees of over £70,I find on the whole the fees I pay quite reasonable given the facilities and services offered on-site.

Personally I struggle to understand (multi-)aircraft owners who spend £1000's per year on fuel, hangarage, servicing and maintainence, who have done so little historically to stand against our airports and air traffic services being privatized and sold to profit-making companies, and then complain about a landing fee for about £13 or less.