Jodel detained at Plymouth

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Ian Melville
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Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by Ian Melville » Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:12 am

After a weather related precautionary landing a Jodel is being prevented from flying out of former Plymouth airport by lease holders Sutton Harbour Holdings.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-33988716

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Ian Melville
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Gavin Bell
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by Gavin Bell » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:52 pm

looks possible to swing the tail around the concrete block.
I'd be interested to know what the LAA are doing to protect the interests of our fellow member?
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Gavin Bell
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by Gavin Bell » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:58 pm

BTW, having just bought G-AYLL with tail rot due to being left outside some many years ago, I wonder how the kidnappers would be liable for any such damage caused by their actions to this wooden aircraft. Surely there must be some responsibility on their part.
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G.Dawes
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by G.Dawes » Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:06 pm

This is morally wrong but legally correct. They can and have stopped it going.
The reason I think is that it MIGHT harm their case to keep it closed to protect the no airfield planning application..
Also Did he upset them when it happened and become a little argumentative with the people there as security ? Nothing quite like a bit of combative arguing to make somebody react adversely, and dig in.
They might have at least put it in under cover.
Graham Dawes
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James Chan
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by James Chan » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:01 am

For a landowner to 'impound' a plane in such a manner for such a length of time is deeply disappointing and frustrating.

Following the recent press release statements by SHH, is there anything that the LAA can or should do to satisfy any landowner's concerns surrounding "safety" in future, such as providing education about GA for landowners and what it actually means if the pilot holds all the correct documentation and is appropriately insured, especially when it comes to permit aircraft?

Furthermore, should the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, which prevents private landowners from impounding vehicles, be clarified or amended to include aircraft?
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B Davies
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by B Davies » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:32 pm

I think some quiet diplomacy behind the scenes has led to a satisfactory conclusion to this saga. Once the aircraft has departed Plymouth we will be able to share more information.

Regards

Brian D
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Nick Allen
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by Nick Allen » Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:41 pm

This has been discussed at (very great) length on the Flyer forum...

All I would add here is that glider pilots frequently land out on private land. The landowner is entitled to compensation for damage, e.g. to crops, but the aircraft owner is entitled to have their aircraft back in the same state it was when it landed. An old flying chum did scores of field landings and said that this usually just happens with minimum legal fuss and bother.

BGA notes on the subject here: https://members.gliding.co.uk/library/c ... d-landing/

Note the bit that says:
Legally, you cannot be prevented from leaving a property or from taking your glider with you. You may be expelled by force, but no more than is reasonably necessary and not before you are asked to leave. Your aircraft may not be confiscated or impounded – that is a form of theft. If you have been prevented from reasonably retrieving your aircraft, the person preventing you has effectively taken charge of the safe keeping of that glider. Politely explain this to that person and point out to him or her the value of the equipment that he or she has just impounded
SHH -- the leaseholders of the Plymouth site -- have turned a tiny molehill into a socking great mountain, and should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

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ChampChump
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by ChampChump » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:31 pm

Graham, no he didn't.

For more, please see the Flyer thread, or pm me.

Good news does seem to be in the offing, although we have been a little more circumspect in other public areas. (Flyer forum, the Facebook page etc). Until the Jodel leaves, unencumbered by certain restrictions previously demanded, our collective breath might need to be held.
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howell
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by howell » Mon Aug 24, 2015 7:39 pm

This whole episode has caused the owner of the Jodel two weeks of extreme stress.
The Jodel owner has been a fine upstanding guy and has dealt with the whole situation in a most polite and respectful manner.
I wish to commend his outstanding manners and general decorum.
Chris Howell.
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G.Dawes
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by G.Dawes » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:06 pm

If this is true and he does get out OK then it actually makes the company and their actions look very bad and as a public relations exercise has totally backfired on them. It has shown them as not nice people to deal with and the local council should look at this whole episode to gain an insight into the company's business ideals of fair treatment. A bit of assistance at a time of stress would look a lot better.
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achean
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by achean » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:05 pm

Surely it behoves all of us to now bite our tongues until we know that the Jodel is recovered at which point if we have a view to express we can do so individually without reference or claiming to represent any wider interest.

This is someones pride and joy at stake here. I, for one, wouldn't want anyone to jeopardise my pride and joy.
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SteveHutt
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LAA Statement on Jodel Aircraft at Former Plymouth Airport

Post by SteveHutt » Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:00 pm

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co. ... jodel.html

Statement on Jodel Aircraft at Former Plymouth Airport

The Light Aircraft Association is delighted to confirm that the Jodel 120 aircraft which was held by the owners of the now-closed Plymouth Airport following a precautionary landing to avoid bad weather, has now been given permission to leave. It is hoped that, weather permitting, it will leave on Friday morning, 28th August.

The aircraft, flown by LAA member Martin Ferid, made the landing in fast deteriorating weather conditions on Sunday 9th August and it has been agreed across the aviation community that his actions were the correct course of action. Once it became clear that there was an impasse between the pilot and the owners of site, many fellow pilots began a high-profile campaign to publicise the issue.

At the same time Charles Strasser, Vice-President of AOPA and Brian Davies, Chairman of the LAA began direct discussions with Sutton Harbour Holdings chairman Graham Miller. It was Mr. Miller’s personal intervention which led to the decision being taken to allow the aircraft to depart.

“There were two key conditions” said Brian Davies. “The first was an assurance regarding the airworthiness of the aircraft. We confirmed that an LAA inspector can provide this by inspecting the aircraft and making an appropriate entry in the aircraft log book. The second was satisfying SHH’s concerns on there being sufficient liability insurance. We are grateful to Haywards and their underwriter Russell Mason of Antares, for working with us to provide those assurances.”

“Sutton Harbour Holdings now understands the importance of allowing pilots to land at Plymouth in an emergency and will be issuing instructions to their staff accordingly” said Brian Davies. “That said, it should be emphasised that this site is no longer a functioning airport."

26th August 2015
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howell
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by howell » Wed Aug 26, 2015 7:06 pm

Can the LAA Confirm that Sutton Harbour Holdings will uphold The Strasser Scheme should any pilot fly into poor weather in the future. Can they please ask for this to be published in the LAA Magazine.
This is a priority as all pilots must be reassured if they run into difficulty they will not be penalised for making a precautionary landing.
Christopher Howell
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B Davies
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by B Davies » Thu Aug 27, 2015 1:26 pm

The Strasser scheme is an agreement with operational airports to not charge landing fees when weather diversions etc are necessary.

Carrying out a precautionary landing on private property, including some land that was once an airport, requires the co-operation and agreement of the land owner. The key issues with the Jodel landing at Plymouth disused airfield was
1. To return the aircraft to the air as quickly and safely as possible with no penalties for the aircraft owner.
2. To get the land owner and the general public to understand that best practice for any pilot caught out in bad weather or with a technical problem is to put the aircraft on the ground as quickly and safely as possible and deal with the consequences afterwards.

We would hope that land owners would look upon the use of their land as sympathetically as possible and that they would assist the pilot in his return to the air. If damage is caused to the owner's property , e.g. crop damage, this should be dealt with by the pilot and his insurance company.

It took longer than expected to achieve both of these aims but I think we succeeded in the end.
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G.Dawes
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Re: Jodel detained at Plymouth

Post by G.Dawes » Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:59 pm

That is better. Why did they not do that to start with, much better public relations.
Go on Martin.Go get it out now and back home to a dry hangar to recuperate from its ordeal.
Graham Dawes
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