Autonomous unmanned aerial vehicles

MikeGodsell · Post by **MikeGodsell** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:01 pm

Take a trip to Aberporth (West Wales airport) John the ATC will take your landing fee, give you a mug of tea and provide a detailed breifing on UAVs and the development work being done there. Phone before to ck who is on duty.
Basically there is a requirement to enable UAVs to navigate & fly around at low level night or day in any kind of visibility, and not bump into other aircraft or buildings etc. The development of this UAV technology is bound to migrate to GA, and could revolutionise our ability to operate in any kind of weather.

Bob F · Post by **Bob F** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:36 pm

Mike,

You have obviously spoken to Aberporth. We are responsible to keep a good lookout when we are flying, even with FIS etc, so are the UAVs tracked by Radar (i.e. to be their eyes), if so, they will be able tell the position of other aircraft, but can they tell the altitude of it and anyone in a possible conflict situation? Reason I ask is that we've all heard a warning about an aircraft passing close from A to B near our position, but not an altitude. Something to worry about?

Bob F

mike newall · Post by **mike newall** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:08 pm

Ahhhhhhh,

When we are all mandatory Mode S and when any of the main radar stations actually get Mode S - most haven't any plans to include it in their budgets just yet

Thus it will come to pass that we will be oblivious to all the UAV's as they will see us and avoid us.... While taking our Hex codes and charging us for the detour

Cynical - moi ?

MikeGodsell · Post by **MikeGodsell** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:44 pm

Bob. So far the UAVs at Aberporth stay in the designated danger area, but there is a possibility of a temporary restricted airway from Aberporth to Crickhowel. The GPS jamming trials probably have some connection with UAV development. I don't know anything about the UAV avionics, but they have an on board autopilot which can take avoiding action. I would think the aim would be to make UAVs self sufficient as regards avoiding other a/c. How can it be done? Micro radar scanners? Miniature INS guidance? HD TV scanners using infra red? Solid state attitude & heading reference systems weigh a few grammes and are already being used in missiles. Amazing stuff may be coming our way in the not too distant future.

mike newall · Post by **mike newall** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:46 pm

The sad thing is that these drones will be able to navigate and conduct their evil deeds very accurately.

All of the modern aeroplanes that we operate for commercial flights have these systems, we are FANS, GPS, CPDLC, ADS....... whatever the acronym is, they work and work well.

I object to the fact that the general public will relate their operation to our recreational flying and if there is an accident, we will get tarred with the brush of media sh*t !

MikeGodsell · Post by **MikeGodsell** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:02 am

Guess I am trying to take a positive attitude to an inevitable development. Drones have been used with deadly effect in Israel /Palestine, and are rightly viewed there as terror weapons.

Now the intention is to use them for non military purposes. Boeing & others see lots of money to made out of this, they also know that the litigation following an accident caused by a midair with a drone would be astronomical. UAVs / drones are flown by a pilot via a video link, and it would be interesting to have comments from such a pilot on here.
There is a drip feed of articles in newspapers & TV about UAVs/drones which seems to be aimed at softening up the puplic attitude to them. Wonder who is funding such publicity?

Bob F · Post by **Bob F** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 6:28 pm

Mike,

You are right about the big business interest in UAVs & the subsequent publicity. Flight International seems to have articles on them every week & all the big boys are involved. You never know, the anti-collision technology they use, or are developing, may help us one day.

Bob F

Charles E Taylor · Post by **Charles E Taylor** » Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:31 pm

Hello

Do not be too concerned, most small UAV development is conducted <150kg - <400ft Agl using the model aircraft rules. Other than that, stay out of notified danger areas.

Although the UK is lagging way behind in the development of air vehicles, integration into civilian airspace is one area where we have some influence.

There is lots of other development going on in this field and once again the UK is leading development in this arena.

I hope that we do not, as we have done so many times before, surrender our developments for others to exploit.

Please see.

[/url]http://www.projectastraea.co.uk/?OBH=354[url]

[/url]http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP722.PDF[url]

Charlie

Penguin · Post by **Penguin** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:41 pm

That UAVs will be able to fly in 'open FIR' in not too many years' time is almost a certainty. They will have to comply with all of the rules of the air that anyone else flying in that airspace has to, including see & avoid. There is a huge commercial market and several companies are investing heavily to develop the technology for military and civil uses. For civil use expect to see twin engined air vehicles with several sensors that detect near by aircraft (not just mode S). This might even be a benefit to recreational flying as the UAV operators may join us in calling for less controlled airspace - once they have the technology to operate safely outside controlled airspace having to operate inside of it will be as much of a pain to them as it is to us.

Pete

PS My guess is the GPS jamming trials have nothing to do with the UAV flying.

Brian Hope · Post by **Brian Hope** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 11:35 pm

Please send me a pair of those rose tinted glasses penguin!