Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon

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Gerry Holland
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Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon

Post by Gerry Holland » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:30 pm

PETITION to Parliament
Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon when pointed at aircraft.
Not sure if generally known but a Petition is being raised to raise crime status of shining Lasers at Aircraft and Helicopters. Seems a worthwhile representation based on increasing incidents all over UK and beyond.

Website to sign.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/122039
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G.Dawes
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Re: Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon

Post by G.Dawes » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:10 pm

I personally cannot see the actual danger of these laser pointer type instruments I have used lasers for engineering work and whilst unpleasant they did not blind me. Lasers used for military use would be a lot more dangerous but they are not available to the morons in the street who would do these acts.
The bit recently where a copilot was injured by a laser is supposedly happening in the ALDERSHOT area???
Military? also the police helicopters showing these blindingly bright lasers are using the infra red camera which Just happens to be super sensitive to those frequencies and would therefore show them up as VERY BRIGHT, they would not show to the human eye as such. The other thing is that sitting in most commercial cockpits you are not really in line with anything from the ground unless leaning over and looking down to try and see it, also the multilayered, polarised and god-knows what else screens at the angle they are presented at would reflect/absorb most of the light from one of these available sources. As for trying to purposely hit the cockpit windows of a fast moving jet at 15000' feet they must be very shots as the spot is only a tiny dot. If the copilot was injured by a laser then it would definitely not be a moron held laser pointer, but something a lot more potent.
To therefore make the possessing a laser an offence of criminal law is a bit over the top for an unresearched subject. It would be interesting to get an EXPERT to discuss the subject
Graham Dawes
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Gerry Holland
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Re: Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon

Post by Gerry Holland » Mon Mar 14, 2016 4:54 am

The incidents of Laser distraction or sight degradation of real danger are all at night and less than 1500'.
Coherent light as per Laser principle, "light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation" arrives at the point of interception with a vessel or aircraft in a fairly focussed area albeit it can reflect and defocus when transiting medium such as mist or clouds.
In the case of cockpit projection that beam can defract and flare as it intercepts the cockpit screen and illuminate very brightly that same cockpit area which is normally operated at night in low light conditions.
It is that exact flash or prolonged contact with such light that causes the danger as crew are effectively blinded in the similar way the eye reacts when someone shines a torch in your face. Different type of light but still a problem for eyes to deal with and respond quickly enough to re-establish meaningful sight.
For my sins in the mid 70's and beyond was involved in several Laser types for commercial operations, all Class III and above. The early Helium-Neon lasers 45 years ago when power was less than today by a large margin did affect sight even without direct aim and often left users feeling sick?
The power and focus of Laser light has a finite range dependant of type and colour with the effective 'point' of light diffusing due to atmospheric interaction. Take a look at a Laser light display to observe some of this. Some little b*****d in the country area I live occasionally shines a Laser pointer across the Valley at our house. That light is very discernible through curtains becoming unfocussed and enlarged area through window glass.

As for an initiative to make this a more culpable offence being a 'bit over the top for an un-researched subject' I would strongly disagree! Our friend Google can happily cite many examples and research.
On approach at night whether a 2 seat training aircraft or commercial jet, a laser beam striking the cockpit screen with be at best be very distracting or at worst incapacitate sight. If done deliberately then this is a crime.
If it is such an irrelevance then I hope I don't have an incident of a flash of intense light at night with 500' to the threshold!
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Chris Martyr
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Re: Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon

Post by Chris Martyr » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:49 am

G.Dawes wrote:To therefore make the possessing a laser an offence of criminal law is a bit over the top
With all respect Graham, but that's not what Gerry said in his original posting. :D
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G.Dawes
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Re: Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon

Post by G.Dawes » Mon Mar 14, 2016 7:56 pm

To possess one is the same as actually having one to use for that purpose, same as a shotgun you have the offence of having one without a licence not mowing down little old ladies with one.
The authorities always go for the potential to use one by possession. I use lasers for construction uses and I would not look kindly into having to prove my suitability to own one because some morons use them for stupid purposes. It is already an offence to interfere with an aircraft just very difficult to show who by and where they were being used.
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Gerry Holland
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Re: Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon

Post by Gerry Holland » Mon Mar 14, 2016 9:40 pm

The premise of this subject when started was to make people aware of a Petition to change the law making it an offence to shine a laser at an Aircraft or helicopter to endanger life.
I'm failing to see Graham where or how you are likely to be affected or sanctioned from using a laser to measure distances and set levels?
Laser use guidance and advice is as follows with last part of document outlining standards.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ety-advice

Simply put...if you shine a laser at an aircraft or helicopter that action should be viewed as a criminal act as it shows intent to cause damage or injury by that action.

My intention was to point out that an initiative was being started to petition the UK Government to consider this action in law.
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G.Dawes
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Re: Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon

Post by G.Dawes » Mon Mar 14, 2016 10:26 pm

In this country there is always the tendency for the regulation to be made gold plated covers all and all the t's crossed i's dotted and then the unintended consequences arrive.
It is a criminal offence to shine it at anybody , car driver , pedestrian, aircraft IF it can cause injury.Then it should be criminal, even misusing it at a work situation would result in a prosecution by Health and Safety. That is all I am saying do not classify anything as offensive weapon as it will become one with all the trouble EVERYONE else will get. MORONS are the one that need kicking, not everyone else. Handguns became illegal because of the actions of one of those morons, everyone else suffered even the Olympic shooting team with their specialty devices lost them. People get shot every day with illegal ones that still exist.
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nuggets
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Re: Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon

Post by nuggets » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:53 am

:!:
Last edited by nuggets on Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Gerry Holland
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Re: Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon

Post by Gerry Holland » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:31 am

Oh dear......
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Chris Martyr
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Re: Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon

Post by Chris Martyr » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:15 am

Graham , I don't think that you're going to find Regan and Carter barrelling their way onto some West London building site in the Mk1 Granada, just to wrestle some poor , hard-working tradesman to the ground coz he's going about his work using some laser measuring/levelling device.
They didn't whack a massive tax levy onto ball-pein hammers in 1981 did they ? after finding one wrapped in cloth in Peter Sutcliffe's car ?
OK, I know that T.Blair's reaction to Dunblaine was brainless , but it isn't too late for him to cup his hands together on his chest and do that quivering bottom lip thing he used to do and then give a simpering, "Sorry " to the honest, tax-paying custodians of legal and licensed firearms.

Anyway,,thread drift over. I take it you won't be supporting this petition then Graham ?
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Alan Kilbride
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Re: Classify laser devices as an offensive weapon

Post by Alan Kilbride » Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:12 pm

Perhaps a licensing system for lasers over a certain power/lumens may be a way to appease the unappeasable.
I have signed the petiton by the way. Can't see a practical use for one with more power than sufficient for construction use.
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