Coaching Scheme

[AlanB]

Out of interest and given the current Hot Topic on Infringements.

Are any of the coaches raising the subject of Infringements - if not should they and what would help pilots on this subject?

Alan

[jamespearce]

My coach came to my strip to do my re validation armed with AIC 61 that relates to the airspace around me. He proceeded to ensure I knew where I was and step up the workload and scald me (kindly) for busting some altitudes he assigned. It was a good workout and points well made.

[P5151]

Hi James

Thanks for your input but that is not what is being discussed here. The issues are:

Whether there are enough coaches

Whether the they are sufficiently up to date on a particular type on the date of training.

Whether the bar for excruciating coaches is set too high.

Whether PCA has been allowed to become too elitist.

Many members will have had good experiences with the scheme, a number have not. The fact that you did does not mean that those who have not should accept the status quo.

[Chris Martyr]

James , if your strip is where I think it is [in Sussex] then you have to be pretty darn good to even contemplate flying in our out of it .
And if it is that same strip , then that tells me that you've been flying for one heck of a long time.
Surely any Instructor worth his salt would have pre-briefed his candidate on what he was expected to achieve and the levels and locations that he was expected to do it at , and all nicely co-ordinated with the candidates current chart .
Deliberately creating a scenario whereby the candidate is forced into an error [ one which the PCS guy had probably pre-empted ] proves absolutely nothing. Well , apart from a bit of a personality disorder on the PCS guys part.
.

and scald me (kindly) for busting some altitudes he assigned..

Any damn fool can force an error and make someone look daft. It's enough to put a younger person off flying for good. So,,to quote the OP,,,,,,,,,,,Why aren't people using the PCS then ?

[Trevor Harvey]

Chris, this forum needs a "like" button.
If that sort of scenario is common then the PCS is not for me.

[Brian Hope]

Just as pilots respond to different teaching techniques, Instructors or coaches use different teaching methods. Let's not tar the PCS or any other training establishment on third party reports from people who used one instructor/coach - and as I recall was perfectly happy with the experience.
The main thread of this discussion has been the availability of PCS on a nationwide basis, and the level it sets for its coaches. I don't see that anything will be gained by trying to discredit PCS as an entity on the quality of its instruction, I do not doubt there are plenty of members who have benefited from their help and considered it good value.

[Trevor Harvey]

As usual Brian, jump straight in with both feet in defence.
When will you get the message that no one is trying to discredit the PCS. Merely pointing out that a particular scenario would be unacceptable is not trying to discredit the organisation unless that scenario was common practice.
I am beginning to get just a little fed up with this forum, and some of your comments in particular, I can't seem to say a word that isn't jumped on as some form of criticism.
Instructors are made from standard human beings. Some of them retain some of the faults they had when they were human, some don't.
The notion of forcing everyone to worship them and the ground they walk on, regardless, is little short of dictatorial.
I personally am extremely keen on aviation at this level (as opposed to commercial ops) but having to fight this hard to make myself understood is disillusioning to say the least.
Perhaps the best thing would be to just shut up, say nothing and just do my own flying, head down.
Don't, for the love of God, have an opinion!!!

[Brian Hope]

Jeez Trevor you are touchy. My comment wasn't particularly aimed at your response anyway, in fact it is probably more relevant to Chris' post than yours, except he seems to be able to not fall off his trolley whenever somebody has a different view to his.
Forums encourage opinion and my opinion is that PCS is fundamentally a good thing but needs tuning to today's requirements. I don't know whether you agree with that of not, frankly I don't care because life's too short and there's more than enough s**t going on in the world to get over excited about what people say on forums.

[Trevor Harvey]

Yes I am a bit touchy. When things are mis understood I get touchy, I've already said on several occasions that I like the idea of the PCS, yet you repeatedly state that you don't know if I do or not.
Yes, your comments were aimed more at Chris, but I agreed with him.
Most of the posts on this subject praise the PCS and would like to see it expanded, more available. Yet most of your responses seem to be, stop knocking it, we/they are all volunteers, there is nothing to be gained by discrediting it etc.
If someone tells me to stop discrediting something when I am not discrediting something then yes, I will throw my teddy out the pram, fall off the trolley and spit the dummy.

On another note, it is interesting that this is the most active thread on this forum since its conception.
So the subject must be fairly important to some.

[Chris Martyr]

Oh ,,,,You two. You are funny I'm convinced you're both born under incompatible star signs.

The post in question was not in any way aimed at the PCS 'per-se' , but simply at that method of teaching, which I don't agree with regardless of if it is a PCS guy or not and if I was in an influential position in the PCS , I would not encourage Instructors to do this sort of thing.
But it wasn't me under instruction , it was James and he was very satisfied with the result of it all.

Does rather pose the question though , was the Instructor in any doubt if James could hold an assigned level or not ? If he was all over the shop then there may have been a degree of justification for this , although I do rather suspect that this was probably not the case though .
Or did he just think he was being clever in concocting lots of different distractions and finally bringing about a level bust.
Bit of a thread drift really . But unfortunately , it hasn't done much to sell the PCS to me either .

[Trevor Harvey]

Much earlier in this "discussion" I mentioned that I have had a lot of different instructors over many years.
I have also seen the PPL syllabus change, sometimes not for the better (in my opinion Brian).
I have also flown with instructors that did not inspire confidence, and others, the vast majority, who did inspire confidence.
Some instructors are, unfortunately but true Brian, on an ego trip and seem to take some pleasure out of making students look or feel stupid. This is real life.
Unfortunately if a student pilot gets stuck with a "bad un" he only has to hint that the instructor wasn't the best and he (the student) will be branded as an incompetent troublemaker who is not prepared to accept the superior instruction of the obviously, because he has a licence to prove it, much more experienced instructor.
Now, if our illustrious Brian can try, just try to read that in the correct sense and understand what I just writ down, then fine.
What the motives were of the instructor in this particular case I have no idea, but if it was an ego trip then shame in him and whoever hired him. I did say IF it was an ego trip.
Should I press submit or just give up? Sod it

PS I was born under an anti matter star.

[mikehallam]

Trevor,

I heartily agree with your last statement.

You've persistently told us you think the 'king has no clothes', sometimes rather unkindly, seriously limiting the effect of your argument. Perhaps in a practical world you really don't represent most of us and it's you who are in a minority !

mike hallam.

[Trevor Harvey]

Mike.
You have read me all wrong, but if that's what you think, there is nothing I can do about it.
I honestly don't understand where I've been unkind.
I give up. You win. I am obviously a bad person. My apologies.
Good day gentlemen.

[Chris Martyr]

Funny old things forums aren't they ?
I'm sure that Trevor and Mike are actually in agreement with P5151's original point. I certainly am . Perhaps we should all [metaphorically] link arms and go forward together on this.

We are fortunate indeed in our wonderful organisation, which caters for 8,000ish members, all of whom are similar but totally different. The knowledge, the skills, the experience that is on-tap within the LAA is absolutely astounding, whether it be for welding, riveting, rib stitching, fabric working , cable swaging, even them funny composite things,,,,,and don't forget that the person who could help you along may not necessarily be an LAA Inspector , although your Inspector will be the one who gives the final nod/stamp of approval.
Before I get accused of being The World Champion Thread Drifter , I would just like to make the point of what an incredible ethos of 'self-help' there is within the LAA and that also extends to flying .
There are several types which completely preclude any type of dual instruction anyway , I.E. Taylor Mono, VP-1, Turbulent, Jodel D9, Luciole and probably several more and the most pain-free way of getting the right briefing notes , check-lists , Weight/Balance data is to delve into your particular types 'community' . Now, this has got nothing to do with having 1,000hrs minimum and being an all singing, all dancing, fully accomplished sky-god and I can't help wondering if certain bods at the PCS have just missed a trick regarding the types of suitable, grass-roots, common sense types of people who they could just include in their database as being part of the solution.
This is not a criticism of the PCS Instructors on the 'shop-floor' who do a fine job, but merely a plea to them further up the food chain to embrace reality . We're not training The Red Arrows or sending a Lunar Module into space here !

[P5151]

Hi Guys,

Yes bottom line is that everyone who has contributed to the thread as written is in agreement about expanding PCS and making the entry requirements for coaches more realistic, apart from the one person who sets the standard.

Unfortunately what is writen on forums an emails is often interpreted negatively and there have been some silly misunderstandings between people who are actually basically in agreement. So, yes we could form a chain or maybe form a choir because we are all singing from the same song sheet.

I have writen something for the magazine which I will forward to Brian, and will continue to stir the pot. I hope eventually common sense will prevail!