Tracey Curtis-Taylor

[Paul Catanach]

Brian.

A valid point, GPS is now the norm and whether navigation awards have any place is perhaps for discussion another day but the question I posed earlier remains unanswered. Did the committee know that the aircraft was fitted with GPS/tablet? If you prefer not to reply here a yes or no via PM would be appreciated.

Also...

The committee has to use a degree of pragmatism and has taken the view that an adventurous flight is still a worthy challenge for an amateur pilot...

From her own website here http://www.birdinabiplane.com/biog/:

She gained her private pilot’s licence, commercial licence and an instructor rating...

Also from the Wikipedia page over which Miss Curtis-Taylor's PR team maintain an almost permanent watch (no doubt to correct any errors).

...she earned her private and commercial pilot's licences, and her instructor rating.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracey_Curtis-Taylor

We could split hairs and say that as she does not fly commercially she is not a commercial pilot per se however Bird In A Biplane Ltd is registered at Companies House so clearly Miss Curtis-Taylor is making money from her flying. Not an amateur then and given that she was accompanied by a 15,000 hour ATPL (in the aircraft) not the feat it was claimed to be.

Once again I am not looking to point fingers or apportion blame, at least within the LAA. I am asking that these numerous inconsitencies (the most polite version I can think of) be acknowledged and given serious consideration.

[Chris Martyr]

Most of my posts on here are pretty light-hearted and tongue in cheek. But this one's serious .

I do not for a second , believe that the LAA awards guys are anything other than well meaning, good hearted souls. I know for a fact that Brian works tirelessly for our Association and I'm sure that sometimes he probably wonders why the bloody hell he bothers . But please believe me , the efforts of all you good blokes IS appreciated .
I do also wonder, and this is nothing more than a hunch and I have nothing whatsoever to substantiate it. But ,is it possible that our awards guys may have been "encouraged" from further up the food-chain in nominating the person in question ? Because if that was the case , then it is perfectly understandable that some people now find themselves between a hard place and an even harder place now that it's all coming apart.

For me , the TC-T issue had been nothing more than a little light-hearted joshing about some bird [her own description] fantasist until quite recently, but it wasn't until ChampChump pointed out that I had unwittingly achieved 'notoriety' on PPrune [a forum I never ever go to] that I realised what a serious ticking time-bomb this now is .
It appears that Pilot magazine have led in their October editorial with a rather critical bit about the woman and also ex CAA guy Barry Tempest has voiced criticism publicly about her as well.
A certain other flying magazine's forum just keeps locking off anything about TC-T which has put one hell of a lot of focus on PPrune and our little old forum , with members , myself included being quoted chapter and verse on Prune.
I find it very difficult to stand by and watch our Association being hauled through this rather embarrassing mire of lies and deceit and feel that it is now time to try and extinguish these flames that are now coming at us from several angles.
I certainly never envisaged having to do this , but I am now going to take it through the motions to have it brought up at the AGM , as Brian suggested earlier. I am sure that a fair few others will support this and I am sorry that it has to be done . But if it appears to others on the outside that the matter may now be addressed correctly , then it may just go some way to cooling this whole sorry situation off .

[gasax]

I find myself heartily agreeing with Chris. At its heart our association has to have integrity - if only so the engineering functions can survive.

Steven's comments that the award was made in 'good faith' look pretty hollow in the light of the facts which have emerged. Yes at the time it was perhaps justified, but since they it has become very apparent that most of the claims made by TCT and her sponsors were straight forward fabrications. On that basis the award simply cannot stand. How can any organisation reward deceit and still make a defence of it?

[Chris Martyr]

Thank you for your support here Pete .
I have to say that this is the first time in 25 years of membership that I have actually felt that our organisation is looking after the interests of certain other [outside] parties interests in preference to those of it's members and I'm afraid it stinks ! [ The outside parties that is...Not the LAA]




Edited , as it could have been construed as offensive by the undeserving good guys .

[DaveWhite]

Steven's comments that the award was made in 'good faith' look pretty hollow in the light of the facts which have emerged.

I don't think that's really fair, since how were Steve and others to know at the time what would come out of the woodwork later? Saying that his words "look pretty hollow" isn't, perhaps, what you may have meant since you then go on to say:

Yes at the time it was perhaps justified, but since the(n) it has become very apparent that most of the claims made by TCT and her sponsors were straight forward fabrications.

Steve Slater's words "In good faith" to me clearly meant "With what was understood at the time".

This lady's actions have been at best underhand, but it doesn't sit well with me when others whom she has evidently duped are themselves apparently accused - with no evidence - of having been complicit somehow in her actions.

(I've made similar comments on other forums, and those who have read them are no doubt as bored reading them as I am writing them - but I feel very strongly that scattergun accusations - however implicit - are quite unfair on those caught up in this saga, many of whom were doing their best to represent their members. Not everybody is perfect. The brickbats should be focused on those who have knowingly misled others.)

[samrutherford]

I do have a good insight into both what actually occurred 'out there' and since (I've received many, many emails and phonecalls subsequently from people present at various meetings/decisions).

In all of this, there are two things that are absolutely certain:

The LAA gave the Bill Woodhams Trophy in good faith.
The HCAP chose (and announced) to give the Master's Medal in good faith (I do accept that actually giving it is a slightly thornier issue).

We can discuss whether due diligence was done correctly, perhaps more could have been done - BUT do not forget the machine driving the 'story' forward with great success (even today, after the genie is well out of the bottle, there are many who still believe it was solo).

So, please, the motion is to have it retracted because it was given for reasons that turned out subsequently to be (grossly) inaccurate. Not to cast blame on the LAA - a mistake was made, this is an opportunity to correct it, in the correct way.




Clock is ticking, however, to propose a motion to be dealt with during the actual AGM business. The latter must be notified a minimum 42 days in advance of the meeting, so that is on or before 11 September. Motions must be presented in accordance with the Articles of the Association which can be found under the Who we Are tab on the home page.

[rszemeti]

Could I also politely suggest that alongside the proposed motion, someone also puts forward a sincere vote of thanks to the awards committee for their efforts and endeavours. I am utterly convinced that the awards committee acted with integrity and good faith when making the award, and it would be exceedingly unfair if the actions of Ms Curtis-Taylor reflected badly on them in any way.

Acting on any committee on a voluntary basis of a small members organisation is frequently a thankless task and takes up hours of free time. When it goes off the rails for no fault of their own, I can only imagine it feels uncomfortable and personally critical. What would be tragic is if the respective members felt their contribution to the running of the organisation was not appreciated.

If we fail to provide the necessary support and thanks to the individuals concerned (both from an organisational and personal perspective) that enables them to continue in their task with a happy heart, then we will have failed in our collective responsibility to support those who work on our behalf.

[samrutherford]

I could not agree more. Absolutely.

[Chris Martyr]

Absolutely right Robin and very well put.
Now that it has become serious , I would like to just say that should it become necessary for me to make the journey to Sywell on Oct22nd , it will not be to take part in anything that I will derive any pleasure from. Just that alone is rather saddening as every other PFA/LAA related activity that I have taken part in has been completely the opposite.
Unfortunately though, I cannot just stand and watch an organisation that I have always felt so close to being mauled by non-members and parasitic outsiders for their own gratification and aggrandisement.
My pride of membership will simply not allow that .
Of course the Bill Woodhams Trophy was awarded with the best intentions. We all know that .
They didn't screw up by making the award. They screwed up when they looked the other way hoping it would all die down. Which it may well have done had it remained an in-house matter , but unfortunately, the modern technology that can make life so easy on one day can end up ripping your throat out on the next day .
The LAA is an organisation of good ,salt of the earth, knowledgeable and hard working people who go about their business in a solid and pragmatic way.
The investment bankers , corporate hospitality leeches, spin-merchants and PR guru's who form the backbone of Ms Curtis-Taylors travelling circus show are of a different gene-pool .
Which is probably why they managed to 'wrongfoot' us all so badly in the first place !

[2greens1red]

What is it that motivates one person on each of the main UK Aviation Forums to rant ad nauseam on a daily basis about TCT?

Nothing else to do with their lives? Are they actually pilots? Do they have a home life? Do the three of them meet weekly to plot more of the same?

I'm genuinely baffled.

[samrutherford]

Perhaps I can explain by use of questions?

1. Do you think the awards would have been made if they knew then what is now known?

If yes, then we'll have to agree to disagree. Go no further!

2. If no, do you think a correction is in order?

If no, then we'll have to agree to disagree again.

As is clear, there are many who believe the awards were made in error and that there is a case for actually doing something about it.

The motion that has been proposed for the LAA AGM represents a perfect opprtunity for this to be debated and voted upon by all members. Both the level of engagement and result will be interesting.

[Chris Martyr]

Hi Richard
I think that the process has progressed a bit further than the "haven't you blokes got anything better to do" stage. .
As far as the Honourable Company of Air Pilots is concerned,,,well I am not an HCAP member and they can deal with it in whichever manner they feel prudent.
As far as our organisation is concerned, then hopefully all of this sorry saga will soon be laid to rest.
I certainly hope so !
People who purport to be something they're not are all over the place. I knew a lorry driver once who , if he had done all he'd said he'd done , would have needed to be 120 years old. One of his best ones was that he had been sent up to "Windermere" [ ]to pick up the remains of Bluebird.
Also , I wonder how many blokes have done a stint in the forces, spent 3 years peeling spuds but have told all their mates about how they stormed the Iranian Embassy in 1981.
Serial fantasists are generally fairly sad but harmless people who tend to be left alone, but when that serial fantasist becomes ingratiated in my hobby and goes on to have their profile elevated by hoodwinking an organisation that is very dear to me and then subsequently drags its reputation through the mud, then I'm afraid that regrettably, it has to be acted against .
I have not yet met Sam. I certainly don't believe it's my prerogative to go into his personal side and whether or not he "has a life" . From what I've managed to ascertain so far, I would say that he probably has quite an interesting life.
What one man perceives as petty and persistent nit-picking may well be perceived by another man as a brilliant bit of investigative journalism.
Probably a bit like President Richard Nixon did in 1976 !

[Ian Melville]

Agh, Stearmangate

[Chris Martyr]

Well,,,,,,,actually you could be right there Ian .

Tracey and President Nixon did have one thing in common. Neither of 'em had ever flown around the world solo in a Stearman.

[Barry Tempest]

I am not a regular visitor to this forum however I feel obliged to post that I have proposed a motion for the AGM to request that the LAA rescind the award of the Bill Woodhams Trophy to TC-T. The award was made in good faith however subsequent information now in the public domain has made a mockery of the claims made by her and the high powered PR circus involved along with her sponsors. I sincerely hope the motion will gain overwhelming support at the Sywell AGM.