Tracey Curtis-Taylor

[Chris Martyr]

If anybody believes a successful rescinding of the award will end this dreadful campaign then think on, .

It'll end it as far as the LAA is concerned . That's all I care about !

Furthermore , I reckon the debate on this forum has been pretty civilised actually , and if you want to berate the lynch mobbers , then do it on the forum where they hang out !

[Chris Martyr]

there are ways and means, and there are levels of behaviour towards a fellow human-being that are acceptable to the man on the Clapham omnibus. I'd like to think he has a sense of proportion and would seriously consider whether he wanted to be remotely associated with this sorry state of affairs.

Exactly, and when you meet me in a couple of weeks time , you'll see that I'm the bloke on the 'Clapham omnibus' who does have an extremely good sense of proportion and fair play and doesn't want to be remotely associated [ along with a few others] with this "sorry state of affairs".

There are indeed "ways and means" . The very reason that it has come to this.
Don't misunderstand me ,,if the democratic process decides that the award stands , then I will accept it with the grace and dignity of all the others on the 'Clapham omnibus' .

[Marchettiman]

Having read the many, many posts on various forums questioning the truth of TCT's claims to a place in the history of women in aviation I can only deduce that she has become overly complicit in the efforts of her major sponsors to exploit the flights she has been involved in to obtain worldwide publicity for themselves. No doubt it was to her (and her team members') personal advantage.
It can be no coincidence that this year is the 100th anniversary of the founding of Boeing, who built the Stearman. Because of their commercial rivalry with Airbus and other competitors the opportunity to promote that heritage with a sponsored flight by a bird in one of their biplanes,must have seemed a gift from heaven to an American company's publicity machine. And it worked, until questions were asked.
Clearly TCT didn't plan and fly the flights by herself, had very substantial technical support and probably did little practical navigation, unlike those real aviators the publicity machines liken her to. But she can tell a well scripted story to her sponsors' emerging markets around the world.
Sadly I agree that the LAA were hoodwinked into awarding the trophy to her personally, so too were the HCAP; the flights were adventurous but I strongly doubt whether TCT could have managed them by herself.
I will support Barry Tempest's motion at the AGM as it stands, but cannot understand why both the LAA and the HCAP have not, apparently, suggested that the award be modified to one for all of the members of the team who were involved in the planning and execution of these flights. That must be a face-saving compromise for all involved in this debacle, if TCT and her sponsors would agree?

[ChampChump]

I will support Barry Tempest's motion at the AGM as it stands, but cannot understand why both the LAA and the HCAP have not, apparently, suggested that the award be modified to one for all of the members of the team who were involved in the planning and execution of these flights. That must be a face-saving compromise for all involved in this debacle, if TCT and her sponsors would agree?

That's a compromise too far, for me. Dilution doesn't remove the taint. I don't wish her ill personally, but the award just seems to be wrong, given what is known now. I can think of several, if not many others whose quieter enthusiasm and actions have had a much greater effect (in the 'outreach' sense) than TCT's flights. Whether the LAA award is for navigation or being a role model, it ought to be given to someone whose achievements aren't under a cloud - and preferably to someone on whom we could all agree.

[Alan Kilbride]

All umpteen of 'em?
No one knows how many aided the trip, that it would be so diluted that next doors cat could be eligible for a part of it for all we know.

I am concerned that if the Award is rescinded, the damage to TCT would be permanent and irreversible. The long term effects of that could be more damaging phsychologically and I worry about that.

If she indeed doesn't deserve the award and has expanded on the truth as much as has been published, then she should have it taken from her.

I believe she has been given ample opportunity to put her side of the story,yet hasn't.

If I do indeed vote for the motion to rescind, it will be with a heavy heart. And I will have misgivings either way.

[Paul Catanach]

"I am concerned that if the Award is rescinded, the damage to TCT would be permanent and irreversible. The long term effects of that could be more damaging phsychologically and I worry about that."

Actually Alan I've been thinking the same. Having seen her in action first hand, giving a speech about her trips, I felt that something is not quite right. What I also saw though were arrogance and a misplaced air of entitlement. If I were wavering those latter two and her having had plenty of opportunities to put the record straight made my mind up.

She may indeed not be in full control but she is aware enough to know this is all wrong. Why else did we not see an outright apology or explanation but instead weasel words such as changing 'solo' for 'sole pilot' and the many edits of her site and Wikipedia?

I take no pleasure in this whatsoever because either outcome is going to be unpleasant for someone.

[Alan Kilbride]

It's a help to know I am not the only one Paul.

Thanks for the post. Trust me, it helps.

Alan

[Paul Catanach]

Alan, you have a PM.


Marchettiman. Having recently learned a little more of such trips as Crete2Cape and the behind the scenes support on the London to Sydney trip, sharing the awards among the teams would be meaningless. With all due respect to Sam Rutherford and those who arrange and support these rallies they are no doubt great experiences but also paid-for jollies. If anything the hard work is put in by the supporting teams, the pilots just turn up and go.

If you or I could afford it we could join in. I don't think anything I could achieve in aviation might be worthy of an award.

[nuggets]

Team GB ??

[Rob Swain]

Tracey who?

Don't have much truck with people who can't even spell their own name properly.

It is Tracy - no 'e'.
After Spencer Tracy.

Spelling it with an 'e' makes her look like a graphics plagiarist.

[Chris Martyr]

Alan , I thoroughly applaud your compassion and forethought in looking ahead to something a little further than the near future .
I don't however though, believe that you should carry any misgivings concerning the Bird in a Bi-plane entourage . Don't forget that they have probably all done rather well out of all this and I'm sure that the "lead characters" have probably done exceptionally well . So if the fountain dried up tomorrow , it's extremely unlikely that anyone would end up 'out of pocket'.

Remember also , it is not really an aviation career as such that is at stake here as the person in question lists herself as an Adventurer/Inspirational Speaker/Writer,,,,,,,,,etc . The career in question is more PR orientated than anything else and I do not think for a second that it will be compromised by anything that's going to happen here.
It is also highly likely that a fair amount of glad-handing and networking may have taken place since the outset which will leave the candidate in pretty good stead as far as establishing a career make-over and re-inventing are concerned. People in 'the public eye' tend to be rather good at this sort of thing ! As a matter of fact , it is a massive industry in itself. Look at how many politicians have had a career-wobble and made a comeback as celebrities. It's normally only then that we realise what oaf's they were.

There are indeed many individuals in aviation whose achievements should have been given more recognition but weren't. Some of them LAA'ers !
You sound like a thoroughly decent man to me Alan and whichever way you wish to place your vote , I feel that you should be doing it with a clear conscience !

[Ian Melville]

TCT on the next series of 'I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here!,

[Peter Gorman]

Having met TCT during her planning stage I wouldn't be a fan.

But this row about her undeserved award threatens to distract the forthcoming AGM from matters more relevant to our flying etc activities. The award was made, and doubtless those who decided this did so in good faith with the available information at that time. I had intended to attend the AGM, wx permitting, but I don't want to waste my afternoon listening to folks orating at length about something that can be argued either way and does not have any material effect on members.

I don't know what the meeting's rules are but maybe the Chairman can call a poll at an early stage, and thereby put the resolution to the meeting quickly to avoid it dominating proceedings.

[Brian Hope]

Hi Peter, ten minutes and it'll all be over. No way is it going to be allowed to degenerate into a slanging match on the rights and wrongs. As you say, there are plenty of other issues to discuss.
Rgds, Brian

[Chris Martyr]

this row about her undeserved award threatens to distract the forthcoming AGM.

Peter,,It bloody well better not
I will most definitely be there and I am really looking forward to ; Meeting like-minded people .
Looking at aeroplanes.
Having a good old chin-wag,,,,etc,,,etc.

Hopefully, Brian's estimate of '10 minutes and it'll be all over' is an accurate one. Discussing LAA relevant matters is one thing and I will have no problem with that . But if anyone wants to dig up all the garbage about 'you know who' which has appeared on various forums over the last year or so then I will be straight out .
As far as I can see, whichever way the vote goes , that will be it ! Closure !
My opinion on this is pretty much like yours Peter and probably quite a few others, but as far as the LAA is concerned , we need to move on . Hopefully without the excess baggage .

Saturday looks to be a good flying day too. So let's make it a good 'un .