Tracey Curtis-Taylor

[Nigel Hitchman]

Bill, Im fairly sure she wasn't asked to leave the room when the vote was taken and she was allowed in the AGM as an LAA member. She was near the back of the room, behind me, so I couldn't see.
There were a small number of abstentions 6 or 7.
Sam, well I know more now, having read this thread and other comments elsewhere. I see many comments that she wasn't solo, so shouldn't get a solo flight award (but this award makes no mention of solo flight) and I see comments that she used a GPS, so shouldn't get an award for navigation, but again the award doesn't prescribe against that and really I think the award is given for doing a long or difficult flight rather than the ability to navigate by stopwatch and compass.
She may have misrepresented certain things about the flight (and other flights) to the general public and perhaps even to other organisations. She may be a difficult person to work with, I was certainly surprised when she talked briefly at the meeting and was quite negative to the LAA members there as though they had all already just voted to rescind her award (when infact most were on her side in this respect) Perhaps she already knew about a proxy vote campaign and was resigned to loose?

However, not withstanding all of this, I believe that a flight from Cape Town to the UK in a Stearman, even when done with someone else in the aircraft and with all the support aircraft and crews behind her and using GPS, is still worthy of the award. Particularly as no one else was nominated!
Perhaps other awards given to her were on the basis of her being solo and that being a requirement for the award, but this was not the case with the LAA award.

However it would appear that there has also been a lot of negative misrepresentation about this award, claiming it is for a solo flight which she wasn't and claiming she should have used GPS, getting people to vote against it, when really both of those award requirements are untrue. I think the LAA has been brought into disrepute much more by the campaign to rescind the award than by making the award in the first place.
Nic, I agree with your last two paragraphs, but don't think that is a good reason to rescind an award made 2 years ago, for which her flight was suitable. If we were voting now to give her an award for "services to the LAA" or something then my vote might go the other way!

[samrutherford]

Hi Nigel,

No great desire, or need, to repeat what is already in the public domain in Pprune.

Her flights are an achievement, but they're not the achievement they've been made out to be. I don't think they merit the Bill Woodhams Trophy (or the HCAP Master's Medal) - and personally am happy to see a vacant year rather than give something important 'because there was nobody else'.

Safe flights! Sam.

[Chris Martyr]

I think the LAA has been brought into disrepute much more by the campaign to rescind the award than by making the award in the first place.

Nigel old boy I believe I'm pretty safe in saying that our organisation hasn't been brought into dis-repute. If anything , it has probably achieved a few plus points in the world of aviation !
I seem to remember some old git with receding silver hair , saying some months back that they didn't screw up by giving the award , they screwed up by turning away and hoping it would all die down.

Well , they didn't and it didn't !

That same grey haired , middle aged person also said summot about "doing nothing not being an option"

Well , they did and it wasn't !
The AGM was a thoroughly enjoyable day ! Apart from a certain Motion we all had to endure which should never have come about in the first place !
My drive back down to Sussex took me over 2 hours, during which I continually questioned myself about having done the right thing.
The unfortunate answer to that , even after extra deliberation is a resounding YES !
You also mention Nigel that if the award was voted for now , the vote would probably go the other way .
Well , in retrospect , that's what has been done.
So, why were we forced to do this ?
All I can say is , thank goodness it's now concluded !

[samrutherford]

Steve Slater: “The award was made in good faith but in the light of what has emerged since we made the award, it is fair to say maybe we would have made a different decision.”

[BobD]

Hi Chris, after my request to you about my Proxy, I did in fact make it to the LAA Rally on Saturday. I was the guy who stood up and spoke about not changing my proxy decision, immediately after the close of the official AGM. I don't know if you were still there then , as many left immediately after the official close. I did ask one or two people if they knew you, and didn't turn around quick enough to recognise you when you seconded Barry's Motion, so sadly didn't get a chance to introduce myself to you. Maybe next time !

I have tried to send you this as a PM, but the messages seem to get stuck in the outbox !

[Paul Catanach]

Bob.

I think messages stay in the Outbox until the recipient opens them.

[Chris Martyr]

Check your PM's Bob.

Whilst I'm here , that's one of the very positive things that's emerged from all this. Friendship and support from others within the LAA network and others who are not. [ But maybe soon will be ]

[Alan Kilbride]

Never got to meet anyone new unfortunately for me, but perhaps not so for them.
I enjoyed the AGM. Brian and Steve were absolutely beyond reproach for the way it was conducted. Thank you to them.
Obviously the TCT matter wasn't enjoyed by myself or probably any other member, but one of the things that dismayed me was the flouncing out of members, some of whom I have great respect for. The vote went the way it went and whether you agreed with it or not, leaving before the election of officers wasn't polite in my mind.
Hope we are all friends again now and we as an association can leave the unpleasant episode behind us.

Alan

[mikehallam]

Without much respect Alan,

'Some of us left' because the meeting was overrunning and with the wx outside threatening (& for me following a determined if fog ridden flight up) it was simply prudent to depart in time to make it safely back home, having waited long enough till the contentious motion was read out by our brave member.
In any case I had done my research before voting on the main matter and prudently used my postal vote.

Please don't just shoot from the hip.

mike hallam

[John Dean]

I was another one that had to leave as the meeting was running late and had some concern at the flight home not only with the weather but also with sunset approaching. Nothing to do with flouncing as I would have preferred to stay for the subsequent members forum.

I also agree we would be as well to now leave this matter behind us.

[tnowak]

I see this issue made it on to television last night. On BBC1 local news (South Today) twice (around 1830 and then 2230).
Tony Nowak

[Chris Martyr]

The AGM was admirably chaired by Brian Davies.
I hope this will bring to an end an unsavoury contretemps on social media. The matter is closed.

Do the 'jungle drums' suggest something to the contrary maybe afoot ?
I do sincerely hope not , the run-up to this was contained rather well within the LAA I thought .
If it is allowed to flare up again , I fear it will not be !

[Nigel Hitchman]

Chris, I don't think this has been contained very we'll in the LAA, if you do an internet search, it's all over every aviation internet new site, as well as in most mainstream newspapers. What a shame all this publicity couldn't be in a positive light for the LAA. I wonder if the LAA AGM has ever been mentioned in the mainstream media before, very rarely in the aviation Media. I wonder if the mainstream Media ever cared before who won the Bill Woodhams trophy!
Still they get it all wrong though, saying the award was for a solo flight and was taken away because this flight was not solo. I guess that's the mainstream media for you though and of course it's much better to have news that's knocking someone down or reporting bad news. Positive good news isn't news!

Sam quotes Steve Slater.
I think yes if they knew all the fuss that was going to be created about the award, they might not have awarded it, but that was with hindsight and Steve wasn't part of the awards committee.
I think it would have been more appropriate to have made the award to the whole team involved in the flight. Perhaps that is what it can be changed to. Just as perhaps the British Tiger Moth team in the Crete to Cape air rally starting shortly might also be worthy of the award, as a team, including support staff.

Sure they are not as worthy as some of the other solo long distance flights that have been awarded and there have been far more worthy flights this year, such as Colin Hales flight across part of Russia, or the Swedish guy in the Moth Major flying to South Africa. But when you look at past recipients of the award, you see a big variety in the awards. There have been a number of occasions when the award has gone to people not flying solo, either two people flying together, someone plus a passenger, or various individuals for a combination of flights around Europe where sometimes passengers/other pilots were carried and other times not.
The Trophy has been awarded to people who just made a few longer distance flights to fly-ins in the U.K. In their single seaters, such as a VP1, Colibri and others.
I'm sure there were more meritorious flights in 2014 than the one in question and I imagine in many years of the award that has been the case, but they were not known about or not nominated, just as for the Rally awards too. But the awards/judging comiitee's decision has been final, that is the way it should be!

[Chris Martyr]

Nigel , I really do wish that you had joined into this debate at the beginning of July when it started. The very reason I say this is because I was of a similar stance to you back then mate and my earlier posts prove it. As far as I was concerned , the poison dart blowers could just go and lose themselves.
Then it became clear that this whole story was just a teensy bit bigger than the LAA and starting to drag our organisation into the poo a bit !
Prior to Aug'16, I had never really bothered with PPruNe , but it did become apparent that some of the contributors on there are quite well informed and actually weren't spouting dross and if we didn't look out , some of this was going to come back and bite us .

Chris, I don't think this has been contained very we'll in the LAA,

I actually said : The RUN-UP to all this HAS been well contained within the LAA , if you look back you'll see that our forum was refreshingly devoid of some of the bile surfacing elsewhere ! Even afterwards , we are remarkably free of any gung-ho jingoism.
I can re-assure you that this type of human-on-human friction isn't anything that anyone ever really wanted ! Certainly not at an LAA AGM !
I have spent the last 23 years at Virgin as an engineer. Barry Tempest's career needs absolutely no introduction whatsoever , so do you really reckon that two silver haired old grandpa's would propose/second a motion such as this without any sort of forethought whatsoever ! We are actually professional people of the aviation world , not a pair of shaven headed, tattooed neo-nazi's !
The way this has been handled in the news has been pretty predictable actually. They don't give a toss about this funny old business of accuracy . That's exactly why a certain other person has been given licence to peddle such a flaky story in the first place. We fully sympathise that the LAA was taken in at the start , but FFS , let's not insult our organisation and its members by adopting this Emperors New Clothes attitude and pretend we are still as clueless over this as we were 2 years ago !

I think it would have been more appropriate to have made the award to the whole team involved in the flight. Perhaps that is what it can be changed to.

Nigel , you've mentioned Johan Wiklund and Colin Hales already and I really hope they don't get to see this . But then you hit us all with this one about awarding the Boeing Aircraft Company , A global investment company plus a whole myriad of blue chip, world wide corporations !
Plea to LAA hierarchy . If you really want to support this , then the next AGM might have to be at the 02 Arena .
You'll be telling us you want the B787 Dreamliner given the award for the best composite aircraft next Nigel !

[Trevor Harvey]

Having just read some of the more recent posts on the Pprune thread, I am beginning to think that rescinding the award amounts to advising a serial mass rapist that he has been a naughty boy.
I am not about to sully this forum by repeating the latest revelations on Pprune except to say that if only 10% of it is true then this excuse for an aviator should be stripped of every accolade she has received, every pilots licence she holds and her medical should be cancelled pending a review.
Her redefinition of the meaning of Solo seems to be an insignificant minor detail compared to her crass disregard for aviation law, regulations, respect for air traffic controllers etc.
Pprune posts from 2192 onwards.
I have no proof to offer as to their authenticity except that many of the posters are apparently intelligent aviators. Or so I believe.
I cannot believe that human nature is so badly twisted that an unjustified vindictive witch hunt is being carried out against an innocent victim.