Grey Aviation

[XC]

The LAA rally this year showed us why aviation is in decline and why there are so few youngsters flying these days. Totally uninspiring ........ a bunch of old guys in tents showing us how to glue wings together or buck a few rivets on a tailplane, compare this to what is available in other sporting activities.

And if you want any further confirmation just read this months LAA magazine - Brian Davies being transported back to the 1970's and Brian Hope's editorial about some old time aircraft that flew in the 1960's. Nuf said.

Hardly likely to get youngsters excited about flying .....

[Paul Catanach]

What exactly is exciting enough about GA to attract youngsters anyway? Our chosen hobby isn't exactly flash enough or affordable for many, how would you go about attracting new blood?

I do have one idea. How about free entry for all Air Cadets? Make the offer to all units across the UK in time for them to organise a day trip and that might bring a few in.

[Chris Martyr]

Blimey Nic.
Are you this negative about everything ?
Stay away from sharp objects for goodness sake...

[XC]

Did you see anyone under 50 at the LAA rally apart from the singers on stage that is ?
Shame to see a sporting activity that is only for the wrinklies when it could such fun for the younger generation ......

Blimey Nic.
Are you this negative about everything ?
Stay away from sharp objects for goodness sake...

[Gerry Holland]

The LAA Rally has never been a good barometer of younger people in flying.
There are young people in flying but most are having to concentrate of gaining hours and experience for a profession in flying. In past years I have had 18 year olds with PPL's and buying a single seat Group A gaining hours for CPL and then selling aircraft to get IR followed by the expense of Flying Instructors rating to earn any money at all instructing! One individual I know in particular worked every hour he could for a our local supermarket chain when not flying and now after 5 years is a 1st Officer on a 737-800 flying to maximum 90 hours per month. Another went the CTC route and is on 320 Fleet. Yet another doing PPL since 17 to go same route. Young people are involved but not for the leisure flying we all do and represented by LAA. Another group is the 30 - 40's, often Airline Captains who come back into general aviation for fun flying when not rostered.

The real challenge is how do we get young people interested who don't necessarily want aviation as a job.
Enthusiasm is out there but not the money to take part. One opportunity is Universities who are aligned to Air Squadrons and I encourage students to apply. Gliding seems to have a better ratio of younger pilots.

Perhaps SSDR and some licensing changes might get more involvement from the younger members of society but all in all cost needs to match wealth and for some form of flying to appear 'cool'.

Maybe the man carrying drone helicopters!!!

[johnmichie]

" a bunch of old guys in tents showing us how to glue wings together or buck a few rivets on a tailplane, compare this to what is available in other sporting activities."

Nic

The bunch of old guys were all promoting the excellent LAA courses aimed at builders. Bucking a few rivets on a tailplane (actually, we weren't) attracted enough sign-ups to almost fill the first course in October.

We are all volunteers; we are grey but, being old and retired, we can give three whole days at least to the Rally. I spent several hours each day manning two stands, and an extremely wet Saturday afternoon out on the field judging aircraft.

I also spent three years instructing and supervising school students aged 14 to 17 build a Rans S6 as part of the LAA/Boeing Schools Build a Plane Challenge.

You are right that, in common with many other activities, we need to attract more youngsters, but what are you doing.

John
(slightly miffed but beginning to feel better)

[Harry Hopkins]

The reality is that flying is rather expensive and hence most pilots are in the age group where the kids have flown the nest.

The LAA Educational Trust awards a flying scholarship when it has enough funds so if any of you want to encourage youngsters into aviation you could send in a few pounds.

In addition to John's Rally activities (for which many thanks John) you might have noticed Dave Hall looking after a Rans S6 built by students or a Sherwood Ranger also built by students from Goole.

At a lower level, our local Strut runs an annual Scouts' Air Camp at which we give them an introduction to several aviation topics, including plotting a triangular nav course which they are then flown along.

There are several ways of sowing the seeds but they're unlikely to grow until there's some disposable income to allow flying.

Harry Hopkins

[Chris Martyr]

Nic. What you've written is a pretty badly thought-through post.

The LAA rally this year showed us why aviation is in decline and why there are so few youngsters flying these days.

So , which decade in the past can you recall as having a lot of 'youngsters' flying ? Apart from the early 1940's.
Youngsters flying aeroplanes in this day and age are pretty much the same as any other time in history. They've either got wealthy parents ,or are up to their neck in it from bank loans.
And if you have managed to ponce 60+grand off The Bank of Mum and Dad to get yourself into the RH seat of an A320, then it'll be a fair few years before you are flying your way into anything like this weekends LAA Rally .
So why were these old gits "gluing wings together" or "bashing a few rivets into a tailplane"?
I'll tell you why , because they bloody well can !
There are ways of getting into aviation which don't include being brainwashed by some Cessna/Warrior academy and these silver haired old fogeys might just be able to offer a bit of guidance to the younger generations if they could tear themselves away from their I-pads, pokemon games or their FaceBook pages !
There are plenty of good folk in this organisation who are happy to give away their knowledge and experience for free !
The problem doesn't lie here. The problem lies with 'youngsters' gripped by inertia and their apologists.

Like you .

[johnmichie]

Nic

At White Waltham, Mike Clews has organised the making of eight pedal planes, and the construction of a working flight simulator out of a Piper Tomahawk fuselage mounted on a trailer.

He and a small band of very hard working members (but not including myself) take these most weekends to schools, flying events, and even national airshows. They have recently acquired a retired simulator and a procedures trainer, again to be made into travelling units to enthuse youngsters.

The Club, like Harry's, has one or two scout weekends a year where the scouts work for their aviation badges and get a flight.

Over the years we have encouraged keen youngsters by taking them flying for free. At least two are now commercial pilots.

These are just a few suggestions for what you could be doing.

John

[mikehallam]

Then please don't neglect to observe/assist the constant efforts of the 'YES' young people's work group, with Stuart Luck, etc.

All voluntary, so heads up folks if you really are ancient aviators, yet bemoaning the aging trend in membership, the way to help bring in youngsters into aviation generally already exists. No need to completely invent the wheel from the comfort of your own key boards !

mike hallam

[Bill McCarthy]

Nic - if you took a few teenagers to a flying event they'd keep bumping into us "wrinklies" as they all have evolved permanently bent necks due to their worship of the iphone !

[Brian Hope]

I'm sorry if you aren't interested in classic homebuilts like the Davis DA2A or our Chairman's anecdotes Nic. Personally I find it strange when aviation enthusiasts have very narrow like/dislike views. Most, I hope, like to read about microlights even if their passion is vintage restoration, or the latest super-kit even though they may fly a Jodel.
If you truly believe the reason GA isn't attracting younger people is because of the magazine then I am sorry for causing the demise of GA in the UK. As a members' mag it is designed to cover the diverse range of activities that members are engaged in. I have tried hard to get a regular Youth Page but our young contributor has been somewhat irregular, partly because of exams and other commitments. I am endeavouring to get regular copy on youth activities but such material doesn't arrive by magic - somebody has to generate it.
If aviation was the only activity that was suffering from an ageing population of participants then we really could look to ourselves as being the root cause, but as almost every other sport or pastime is suffering similar problems it is clearly a much bigger issue. I believe it is due to a cultural change, but we can still make meaningful inroads it we are committed to the task in hand.
Unfortunately a big part of the problem is people who whinge about it and do bu**ar all to help, expecting 'somebody else' to solve the problem. In over 40 years of LAA membership I'm still waiting for 'Somebody else' to call me and say they not only have all the answers but that are actually going to help to instigate them.
Fortunately we do have a core of good people who work very hard to promote aviation as a hobby or career to young people, some of them have been mentioned here. As an association we have funded a number of educational initiatives over the years and currently a review of LAA and LAA ET's educational, training and outreach activities is taking place with a view to improving our offering. If we have a problem it is that education and outreach are only a small part of LAA's activities, so expecting the Board or the Staff to run these activities is simply impossible. The LAA is a self help organisation and relies on volunteers. HQ can facilitate but we need people passionate about education to drive new initiatives forward.

[BobD]

And if you want any further confirmation just read this months LAA magazine - Brian Davies being transported back to the 1970's and Brian Hope's editorial about some old time aircraft that flew in the 1960's. Nuf said.

I really can't agree with these sentiments. The LAA Magazine, and the Europa Flyer are the only two aviation magazines I look forward to reading, rather than just reading the other mainstream magazines when they turn up.
I also enjoyed my visit to the LAA Rally this year. OK, maybe it didn't do a great deal to inspire youngsters, but this is not the LAA's primary function. I believe it is to promote the building and flying of homebuilt aircraft, which I think the Rally achieves. I am all for encouraging youngsters to get involved in aviation, but there are other organisations out there to do that (Air Scouts, and the sadly contracting ATC).

BobD

[Paul Hendry-Smith]

Well I am sure my post will create a rustling of feathers

Grey aviation is spot on, I have a great deal of time for the LAA and what it stands for however we have a serious issue, we are not encouraging new blood into the industry and we are missing every trick in the book to do so.

The LAA Rally is a great thing but is over priced for entrants, £10 for a youngster to get in and another £10 to go airside????? We should be throwing membership at them for a tenner and letting them in for free. The LAA should have given free entrance to everybody below 18, we/ they should have mail shotted schools, colleges, air scouts and all the other places we can encourage entry level aviators and invited them in.

Sywell is the wrong location, aircraft manufacturers and importers need to demo aircraft take prospective customers and people keen to get into aviation on test flights. The LAA is risk averse, we should run the same program as the EAA Young Eagles, we have film stars, rock stars and people of note that could and would encourage young people to get into aviation, worrying about what might happen is one sure way of killing everything off.

The average demographic of the rally was grey hair or no hair. I heard the same question from the same person this rally as I have over the last 6 years and I could safely predict he would ask the same question next year, and with no intention desire or even need to ask it, when I asked the same question I always ask him he confirmed he didn't have an aircraft but was thinking about it......

The LAA membership is seen as grey men in old sheds sticking stuff together in mysterious ways that we really want to keep exclusive to ourselves.....

The LAA needs a step change, such a big change that it would probably be seen as heracy but if we are to move forward it has to happen.

[RichardMaxted]

I don't normally get involved with posts like this but ...

It is all too easy to take a pop at somebody else for not organising the event that you want. I "do" events for Sherburn Aero Club and have lost count of the number of "What we need is...." type suggestions that are actually more accurately described as "What I want you to organise for me is..."

There is actually quite a simple solution. Those that feel that the Rally is too narrow in focus and too geared towards a particular generation need to get off their soapboxes, roll their sleeves up, and get stuck into actually doing something to change it.