Grey Aviation

[Paul Hendry-Smith]

That's a pretty stock reply Richard, what I would class a a throw away comment.

You know I think the LAA and all the people there work very hard to make a success of things, especially the Rally, however it isnt bringing the youth into the industry/sport. Quite happy to get involved, but we need to have a core understanding that things need to change, there is no way I would get involved only to hit the status quo again, as I said step changes need to occur to motivate young folk to get into the sport.

As for Brian's reporting on old aircraft, that is as much a part of aviation as the new plastic fantastics I have no problem with that and articles on where we have come from are just as important as articles on where we are going.

Andrew Haynes visited with me about 3 years ago, as head of the CAA he knew the industry was deminishing, he has done many things to assist in regenerating things, we have SSDR, we have relaxed reduced Licencing, we even have now self certain medicals, to breath new life into aviation we need to bring in youth, and now is the time to do it before it is too late.

[Paul Catanach]

For what it's worth a new member to the Flyer forum 'LAA Rally Man' joined today. Within his (very informative) post was this bit*.

So lets start with what the LAA Rally is all about.

Its a Rally - not an air show or a trade show. It's for the LAA members and it's meant to provide a focal point and an annual meeting place for the mem. bers. It's open to the public in the hopes that we might garner some new members but ultimately it's for the members.

Which suggests that they would be more of a happy by-product than an objective. If we are not going to use our biggest annual event to make a positive effort to bring in fresh blood then when are we going to do it?

The rally can still be primarily for us but this is the biggest single opportunity to draw people in. We should be making the best of it.




*I accept that this is a single comment from one volunteer and may not be the view of all Rally organisers.

[Brian Hope]

The rally can still be primarily for us but this is the biggest single opportunity to draw people in. We should be making the best of it.

And that is pretty well it in a nutshell.
The Rally organising team consists of just four people, and sitting here at my desk in my sackcloth and ashes, I have to confess to being one of them.From some of the comments expressed on the forums I think perhaps I shouldn't really admit to it. As a small group we can keep a tight control on the finances because if the Rally starts costing the Association money, it will be axed. We are very fortunate to also have a great bunch of guys that work incredibly hard year in, year out, to put the event together and make it tick, but administratively it is very tight.
Of course we see the event as an opportunity to sell the LAA to new people and inspire them to join, and if anybody has any ideas on how we can improve on what we are doing then by all means tell us.
There has been criticism on the forums that the event is too insular and other flying organisations should be present.
I couldn't agree more so we invited BMAA, BGA, AOPA, BRA and BMFA, offering them a discount on stand space which meant they could have been there for little more than £100, hardly excessive. As a general rule it was a lack of volunteers to man stands that was cited as the main reason for not attending. Maybe their volunteers have read the forums as well and have come to the conclusion that life's sweeter when you let some other idiot take the flak. GASCo did support us again and brought their pre-flight inspection competition, so a big thank you to them for continuing to make the effort.
When else are we going to bring in fresh blood? Paul asks - well this year we have attended the Popham Microlight Fair, Aero Expo and will be at Flyer Live in December. Again the reason is two-fold - to meet and chat to members so we aren't regarded as a faceless organisation, and to inform non-members about what we offer so they might want to become members.
Out of interest, so far this week, as a volunteer as well as an employee, I have been accused of causing the Rally to be grey and boring and only attended by old people because the magazine contains articles about old aeroplanes, and I've brought the association into disrepute over the Curtis-Taylor affair as part of the awards committee that presented her with an award two years ago.
All I can say is thank Christ it's Friday and time is running out for me to make too many more b****-**s this week.

[Paul Catanach]

Brian.

Sorry, I should have made myself clear. When I asked what we are doing to bring in new people I was including myself in that. I've made the decision that work permitting I'll help out next year.

Paul

[Ian Hoolahan]

I was not there this year but in the past have thought there should be more going on in the air, yes it is a rally, but how about things like a Vintage fly past and some sort of basic aeros comp (there was an RV comp this year and the Rally would have been an ideal place for that), spot landing comp. A nav competition would be good as well, ground visitors might not see much of that going on, but a results board would at least show that we do more than fly somewhere and eat expensive bacon butties!

[G-TERN]

Yes, but who's going to organise all that great sounding stuff? Are you? Not just volunteer for an hour or so but organise it. There's hundreds of hours of effort, toil, sweat and tears there mentioned in a short posting!

I don't have the time to volunteer for anything, not until I retire anyway, therefore am eternally grateful to all those who do have the time and inclination to do so. Thank you for putting on a great show yet again. There's always scope for additions and gentle improvements with anything in life and some ideas have been (rather forthrightly) branded around but I feel that for what the rally is (just that, a rally) the format and the way it is run is absolutely right.

BRIAN! I'm saddened to sense your feelings inferred in the last few lines of your post. Always in the aftermath of things people home in on negatives and ignore positives. Don't let the b@@@ards grind you down!

I just wanted to say that the rally is my absolute favourite event of the year and the magazine is my favourite read by a long long way, so that's two things for me that you are "doing right...."!
Jon

[Brian Hope]

Thanks Jon.
Unfortunately it isn't practical to have displays over the airfield. Arrivals have to book slots, and this year they were spaced at one per minute, with pretty well all slots booked from 0800 up till after 1400. Arrivals stop at 1500 until 1730 to allow for the busiest departure period.
When the weather affects the arrivals, there can be periods of little aerial activity but as a general rule there is a steady stream of arrivals and departures.
Display acts, and that includes something like a vintage aircraft fly-by, are classed as an air show and those taking part need a Display Authorisation if they are going to be close enough to be sensibly visible. We would also have to pay for CAA authorisation and we might even have to clear airside so people were away from the flightline. We will include your suggestions on the list for discussion nonetheless, the display scene has been in a state of flux and we need to make sure we are au fait with the latest regulations but I fear your ideas will prove impractical on so many levels.
Rgds, Brian

[B Davies]

I have been reading the comments about the rally with interest. I learned some years ago (before my hair was grey) that a complaint is a gift. We have over 7,500 members and very few bother to let us know how we are doing or give us some ideas, so thank you.
First, in defence of Brian Hope- there is no one more vocal and more active when it comes to championing change. If we could find another dozen Brian Hopes we would probably have the key problem licked. The key problem being the lack of volunteers to implement the many good ideas that come from concerned members. Sadly, the number is diminishing at the very time when we need an injection of new blood. So if you feel there is a better way come and help us do it. I originally complained to Roger Hopkinson when he was chairman and he said the same thing and look what happened- I ended up chairman!

Attracting younger members is a tough one. I think we can grab their hearts when they are young but not their wallets or their time so we have to look at it as a long term investment. We have supported the Build a Plane projects and we are keen to work more closely with YES . The hard facts are that it is the grey generation that has the time and money to spend on our sort of aviation. The good news is that nearly everyone gets old so, in theory, there should be a steady supply of new members. We are a members association so we have to act in the best interests of our members so it is probably not surprising that we put on events such as the rally that reflect the age group of our members.

Our attendance at events such as the Flyer Show at Telford and AeroExpo are more marketing related and this is where we can attract the younger generation and work with the commercial organisations that attend those shows.

Brian Davies, chairman

[Bill McCarthy]

Well, if the LAA start wasting arrivals time again by putting on any form of air display I'll keep away. It's not an air display event (in the air anyway) - and I want to see as much as possible on the ground. If an air display is wanted then go to an air display - there are plenty of them throughout the summer. We flew down again this year - a five and a half hour flight from Wick and it's a real challenge to get there and home again.

[Ian Melville]

I don't think there is any danger of that Bill, though Sywell did have a darn big banner saying "Airshow" or something like that visible from the road. I was on car parking duty on the Sunday and spoke to a few off the street customers, who were clearly expecting some kind of air display. I suspect the sign was recycled from another event.

I was there for two days (by luck was not able to attend on Sat ). I enjoyed myself, and spent so much time chatting to friend old and new that time just vanished. Spent more money than I should have on a few good deals And added a few new bits of knowledge to my grey matter.

[Ian Hoolahan]

The question AIUI was "what will attract young people", I was answering that, not saying how easy it would be or who would organise it and I do realise these things are not that simple, but to me an aviation event should involve more things going on in the air than just aircraft arriving and departing! Whilst it is busy at the rally they seem to have things even busier at various events in the USA and STILL put on a bit more of a show!

[Bill McCarthy]

If you have an air display for say, two hours each afternoon - you could get almost two hundred visiting aircraft in during that session on each day and incoming aircraft would be backing up all over the country. Now, if you include the element of borderline weather in the morning for those days you could have an empty aircraft park and very disgruntled drive in visitors.

[mikeblyth]

As Richard said stop moaning and do. Wish I was back at work had more free time.
Great rally, good team, fun to fly in.

[JonEdmunds]

I wrote a long reply with suggestions and praise etc but it ended up feeling like a moan I decided not to post it.

Having put on smaller events in the past I can only try to understand how much effort is involved and how hard it is to please the crowd.

Thanks everyone who worked towards making it work.

Is it perfect, no. Could it be better, of course. Would it be better if it wasn't put on, absolutely not.

An event that is for it's members, where the members are 'mostly' grey older men, is always going to be a Grey aviation event.
If we want a youthful event then you need members who are youthful. Sadly this isn't the case. Personally I would quite enjoy a rave tent but I suspect most wouldn't (and most wouldn't want to see me with my top off, holding a light stick and raving away either).

It seems there is a need for a younger event to attract new people to aviation and to keep the younger ones keen but there isn't' a group/association for that.

I suspect the CAA rally (if there was one) would be full of CPL's with bars on their shoulder and too important to speak to you

The Freefall parachutists rally is probably more like a rave/dance party.

I remember 'Surfenders' when I was younger but I didn't see many old surfers trying to get in or anyone complaining there was a lack of old people there.

Horses for courses, I'm not sure the problem here is the LAA rally. It seems more like the fact that there isn't' a 'course' for the 'younger horse'.
I would be more likely to go to that myself being an immature adult, I would then complain about the noise and leave early moaning on the way out

Edited to add:
With all the re-writing I removed the bit to say I enjoyed it and will be back next year, thanks again for all the effort put in.

[RichardMaxted]

Whilst my comments may seem a stock response to some they are most sincerely meant and come from a lot of experience of organising, running, and clearing up after events. I suspect that most clubs and societies have a long tail of those only to willing to take part in an event but not to do the weeks of planning, the 4am start and the 9pm finish that most events require.

Having been there and done it then I am always surprised by how well most events are run by what are often nothing but a mere hand full of volunteers. I must have heard every excuse under the sun for not so much as offering to run round and fill a black sack of litter for 5 minutes, let alone shift some barriers.

So whilst my comments may seem glib, trite, or stock they come from a very real feeling that those who are not prepared to roll their sleeves up have little real reason to complain about the efforts of those who at least try to achieve something.