ALL MEMBERS ! Please fill out those proxy forms..!!

[Chris Martyr]

Does this make the discrepancy in the quotes clearer, Chris?

It certainly does Donald , thank you . It just seemed to pass me by somehow. Mind you it wasn't the most factual piece of journalism I've ever read.
The referral to the proxy votes though ,is the most important aspect of the whole process , because in an organisation of circa 8,000 members , it would be totally absurd to only count the votes of the people in the room . But amazingly , this is what Tracey & Co. tried to do in 2016 . I will be kind in this instance and refer to it as an attempt at 'vote misplacement' .
I also believe that AGM-2018 requires a far higher level of oversight than in 2016 ! Not only with security issues and being asked to present proof of membership , but also in ensuring that each member and his/her proxy form tally with some sort of master-list. Ideally , the proceedings for this year , really require audit from externally sourced consultants , but seeing as this has all been sprung upon us just weeks before the AGM , it'll probably make it all the more difficult to police .

As far as Paul C's question about if Tracey is a member . I have her statement in front of me from 2016's AGM . Her membership # is 035363 . This statement seems somewhat futile now in what was then claimed as fact . Because it wasn't until 6 days later that the 'Herne Bay Tapes' became public . It pretty much wiped out most of what was in her "statement" . So realistically speaking , she deserves the recinding of the award even more in 2018 than she did in 2016 !

To any members who are rolling their eyes and muttering "just drop it". It should be pointed out this is not really about whether Tracey's award is recognised by the members or not . Because I'm sure most of us know the difference between them that deserve this award and them that don't,,,and I think there might just be other people in attendance at Sywell who have had their name on that award too .

No , this is all about avoiding to pave the way for further and far more serious repercussions for our organisation .

So VOTE..!!.

[samrutherford]

Sorry to be back on this subject, it's not by choice!

Ewald told me that they have changed the voting rules at the LAA AGM (specifically with regards to Tracey).

Anyone know something about this? Perhaps not the case?

I hope not, changing the voting rules and not telling the members would be very uncool.

[Planemike]

This gets better !!! Change the rules for Tracey ?? In what way ?? Surely that cannot not be done without a vote and the agreement of the majority of the membership. That is the way it works
in most organisations of which I am a member.

Sam........ See you post on the thread on Pprune re. this subject. I on principle refuse to open the
thread. I am intrigued as to how the thread rambles on for days.

[Brian Hope]

There has not been a Motion or a vote to change the voting rules, ergo the voting rules have not changed.

I believe the idiom must be - we are cool.

[mikehallam]

Undoubtedly the members attending the 2016 AGM were few in number compared to our total membership and by the logistics less than representative of the whole, whereas the proxy voting system allows every member their say.

The lady member at the centre of this affair is acknowledged to be a persuasive speaker and I suspect no-one asked questions affecting her true piloting role in the award winning flight. Instead most, gentlemenly voted that they trusted her version.

Unfortunately thereafter she continued to make false statements that she piloted/navigated solo which means what was voted by the floor in 2016 was based on a flawed understanding and should be negated. The LAA members at large were not mislead & having carefully examined the facts available from several solid resources placed their votes.

The result should remain TCExit should mean TCExit.

I remain very unhappy that the organisation I joined approaching 50 years ago is subject to & yieding to what seem to be powerful external pressures to make us do it all over again

mike hallam

[John Dean]

yielding to what seem to be powerful external pressures to make us do it all over again

I really don't think that's the case, Mike. Any member can put forward a motion for discussion at the AGM whether the LAA Board approve of it or not. I think that in this case they would rather this subject had not reared its ugly head again.

[Chris Martyr]

all who ask why the Association is getting involved with this issue again. The simple answer is that this is a members' association

As EVERYONE who contributes has said . It was done & dusted 2yrs ago . Nothing can have possibly changed can it ? Nobody can tell me that "fresh evidence" has emerged , it has always been the same . The only significant fresh evidence is a certain video-clip from Herne Bay , which could bury all of this even further.

But what does keep constantly changing is the drip-feed from Tracey & team ! she resorts to sending some unconvincing bell-hop from her IT team to tell everyone that it was his fault . Ewald , who said very little before , is now trying to impress on us all that he was there and how pivotal he was in it all. Well we know all that anyway ! Isn't it odd that his name wasn't on the award when it was given to her in the first place though !

The whole thing has now descended into farce ! Not even Jeffrey Archer tells 'em this good !

Do Tracey's team of brought-in experts actually realise that this award is given to its recipient , and then retained for a year , and then passed on to the year afters winner . Ironically , I believe its current custodian is Colin Hales , whose name is on there TWICE by the way , who will pass it on to this years winner at the Sywell AGM . If he can get through the door that is !
Curtis-Taylor acts as if this award is going to be hers forever . Well , she had it for a year , it was subsequently passed on to its next recipient and then the membership decided via the democratic process that it should not be recognised . End Of...!!! Regardless of what they manage to cook up on Oct21st. She will certainly be forever synonymous with the award , but not for any particularly honourable reasons .
With view to the fact that in 2016 she was given the floor and allowed to give 'her side' , one can only assume that at this years hi-jacking , similar favour will be given . Folk of the opposing faction I assume , will be told to remain quiet and let her have her say . The people who oppose her stance need only seconds of the Chairman's time though ; About 15secs for a certain video clip and a few more seconds for a still shot of Tracey telling everybody how she flew all those thousands of miles in an open cockpit biplane . Alone !
It is being fairly openly discussed about the sinister repercussions which could come about as a result of all this .
Which suggests Tracey Curtis-Taylor doesn't really care two hoots about our organisation . And even less its membership .

[Chris Martyr]

yielding to what seem to be powerful external pressures to make us do it all over again

I really don't think that's the case, Mike.

.................and I don't think it's the case either , Mike .

Just change the word 'external' , to its opposite meaning .


<Clue : think high>

[Paul Catanach]

I believe the idiom must be - we are cool.

In your case Brian that was never in doubt.


It is becoming clear to me that some serious money and effort is being put into this by TCT and those taking her side, the upcoming film of hers must be desperate to turn this around and avoid adverse publicity. As has been said elsewhere, this must have been months in the planning and has the air of ambush about it.

I’ve no idea how the evidence has been spun to cover or contort the ‘alone in a cockpit’ presentation and Herne Bay video in which Miss Curtis-Taylor claims more than once to have flown to South Africa solo but it must have been. Either that or conveniently ignored.

Watch the video below, look at the photograph and then tell me how the defence that this was never claimed to be a solo flight sits with you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZD6IsGmGgw

[samrutherford]

@Brian

I believe the idiom must be - we are cool.

Excellent and agreed! Seems this was just more smoke and mirrors.

Thanks, Sam.


For background, here is the excerpt from Ewald's mail to me:

Yes, TC had reopened the discussion about the motion on recommendation of the current LAA board! The vote was not according to their voting mode (they changed the mode thereafter to avoid things like this happening again) and they realized that the award had been given correctly for the above mentioned reason.

The full email exchange is on Pprune.

[Brian Hope]

Maybe what Ewald is referring to is the change, presented as a Motion last year by the Board and accepted by members with a vote at the AGM, that ALL Motions had to be lodged at least 42 days before the AGM. Previously only Motions that affected the Articles had to be in by 42 days, other Motions could be lodged much later (either 7 or 14 days prior, I can't recall). This ensures the Board has time to consider the Motion properly. It has absolutely no effect on voting.
Just to clear up another misunderstanding that some seem to have, Proxy votes and votes at the meeting have equal stature.
The magazine, AGM details and Proxy forms have now gone to press, the Proxy form as usual being printed on the reverse of the magazine address sheet. It should be with members late next week.

Regarding 'high level' internal or external pressures, I know of no grassy knolls, film lots for moon landings or chip shops where Elvis works. This is a squabble over a trophy, not the planning of a coup d'état. Let's at least try and maintain a sense of reality.

[Paul Catanach]

I know of no grassy knolls, film lots for moon landings or chip shops where Elvis works. This is a squabble over a trophy, not the planning of a coup d'état. Let's at least try and maintain a sense of reality.

Pleased to hear it Brian although if we take a step back we find that it is TCT’s associate, Ewald Gritsch, that is making the claims that the voting process was changed to benefit this shambles and that TCT was encouraged by the LAA Board to challenge the 2016 vote.

Mr Gritsch may just be putting a spin on things but the fact remains that these claims are coming from her camp. Couple this with the fact that our own Vice President has made the proposal and you can see why members are suspicious.

Incidentally, can I ask why Stewart Jackson felt the need to make this proposal? Ms Curtis-Taylor is an LAA member and, like any of us, is perfectly entitled to make proposals of her own. This certainly gives weight to Mr Gritsch’s inference that some of the Board are on her side.



PS. There’s a bloke in our chippy who’s a bit short, wears all green, pointy ears. I think he’s elvish.

[Chris Martyr]

Regarding 'high level' internal or external pressures, I know of no grassy knolls, film lots for moon landings or chip shops where Elvis works.

Very droll my son , very droll .

No , I'm not on magic mushrooms either . But it doesn't take much to work out who is being referred to here ! He has also done rather well out of Anglo/Austrian relations too ..
[Edit to add].............and his title implies that he represents the English county in the bottom RH corner where all the hops and apples grow..

[PaulSS]

It's a shame we can't just vote 'No' here and now and save the LAA and its members the postage fee (especially as mine will be coming from Oz).

Of course, to be eligible you'd have to be sitting backwards on a chair, with a cat on your head, an ice cream cone sticking out of your ear and a pencil dangling from your nose or Tracey's Camp will come up with some other spurious reason for LAA members' votes not counting, unless they're in the room and on her side of the table.

The whole fiasco is really quite pathetic and just smacks of an attention-seeking spoilt child, who doesn't like the fact that her lies became her undoing and took her toy away.

Surely the LAA has more important things to do than spend more time on a self-aggrandising manipulator of the truth.

[Chris Martyr]

Surely the LAA has more important things to do than spend more time on a self-aggrandising manipulator of the truth.

It may just make it a bit easier if people who DON'T agree with this statement leave their comments.