2019 Rally

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Brian Hope
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2019 Rally

Post by Brian Hope » Sun Jul 14, 2019 7:35 am

Posting stuff about this year's Rally on the 2020 Rally thread was causing confusion so it's probably better that we start a thread specifically about 2019. I've reposted the stuff about the AIC etc, please remember to bin any copies of the earlier AIC - Y038/2019 - as it has been withdrawn and the relevant AIC is now Y098/2019.
We have put the new AIC up on the website (link from News on the home page), you can download it and print it, plus a printable pdf of the aide memoire that will come with the August magazine. LA is being bundled with FLYER as well this month, so any non members who take FLYER and are planning to come to the Rally will also receive a copy of it, plus of course the Rally details in LA.

We are also currently working with Rob at SkyDemon to produce a gizmo of the joining procedures that SkyDemon users will be able to download and attach to the Sywell end of their route into the Rally. We will be testing the download into iPad and Android tablets and phones in the next few days and details will be included in the next magazine and on the LAA website. We don't want to encourage pilots to have their eyes in the cockpit rather than on stalks looking out the window, but we hope it will encourage better adherence to the AIC instructions.

Finally, we have run into a glitch over the bookings that were made early in the year when the slot bookings were opened inadvertently. To be fair to those who booked, we asked Sywell to save the bookings and intended having the slot booking site reopened on August 1 with them still in situ. However, the CAA's subsequent insistence that everybody that books a slot must first read the joining instructions and then tick a box acknowledging they have done so, before they are able to actually book the slot, means that the early bookings do not comply. Sywell has agreed to email those who booked early, letting them know they have to rebook, and the plan is to open the website for a short spell to allow them to do so before the site is available to all.

Naturally we and Sywell will do all we can to make this work, but there can't be many of us that have never had a problem with computers, so if you were an early booker, and don't for some reason get an email from Sywell, please keep an eye on the booking site so you can rebook as soon as it opens.

If you have any questions about the Rally please post them here, get in touch with me via email or give me a ring, my details are in the magazine.
Thanks, Brian,
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mikehallam
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by mikehallam » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:35 am

Good Day Brian,

As requested I directly reposted your above on the Flyer forum. One chap wrote to my mail box this morning saying usingbhis Sky Demon plotting for the co-ordinates given in it, they didn't tarry.
I have repilied asking if he's LAA & can reply here, otherwise I might have to act as a poor messenger !

Meanwhile I just opened the AIC. WHAT a MONSTER Brian.
Twenty eight (yes 28 pp's) of information overload, yet the horrible mixed rat race - generally in the Pitsford area- remains much the same invitation the death by air to air.
In recent years I only dared come on the Friday hoping for a better chance to survive but TBH it is not an attractive procedure and i honestly doubt that of the % who read it a smaller % will remember the details when P1. Let alone the ground plans, certainly when taxying I look out of the window, never down at a sheaf of paper.
So with the best will in the World, I feel somewhat depressed by the whole thing.
More anon.

mike

Brian Hope
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by Brian Hope » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:25 pm

Hi Mike, many thanks for posting on the FLYER forum for me. The co-ordinates shown on the AIC for the corners of the hold are a problem, but really don't need to cause undue concern. I asked Jeff Bell, Sywell's SATCO, about them and they represent four turning points where the locations coincide with features on the ground. However, the AIC scribes have always made the hold a square, because the four reference points shown lead to a rather obscure shape.
So, my take on it, let's say, what I would do if I were flying in, would be to fly an eyeballed hold as near as is depicted on the AIC, the square, taking into consideration that I would probably have to make adjustments to keep station with anybody ahead of me. Therefore I have asked Rob at SkyDemon to plot the hold as near as he can to the representation drawn on the AIC, because not everybody will be using SkyDemon and it's probably not sensible to have discrepancies between what the AIC depicts and the SkyDemon plotted hold that will be made available as a download.
What Sywell do want is for people to join from the hold, not decide they are so important and ace of the base so it doesn't apply to them. Deciding to miss it all together and join on downwind or whatever best suits their misguided sense of importance is what causes problems.
And even though I would be coming up from the south, I would make sure I gave the airfield and any possible extended final approach, a wide birth to the east and would then, with the hold drawn on my chart, or on SkyDemon, I would descend and join the hold at the northernmost corner to run parallel to but in the opposite direction to downwind for 21, keeping a maximum lookout for other traffic in the hold or joining it. It's then a case of spacing myself with other traffic as I go around the hold so I can leave the hold to join base for 03 or to join downwind for 21, or if that's not possible, I'd go around the hold again. My aim would be to keep well away from the circuit traffic until I have left the hold.
OK, yes the AIC is lengthy, and you should read it because some parts will apply to you and some will not, but the joining procedure is neither overly lengthy nor particularly complex. Indeed it is all contained on the aide memoire, which is only two sides of A5.
Once you are on the ground there are marshals to direct you, and if you have read the AIC and prepared properly, you won't have a problem communicating that you want fuel or whatever.
Best rgds, Brian
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mikehallam
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by mikehallam » Mon Jul 15, 2019 3:33 pm

Dear Brian,

There have been several messages via me and here's the final one I had in today, in case you or anyone else is aiming to plot it precisely.

Quote:
Hello Mike

Further update

Suggest you (or whoever) to change the coordinates to

N521911.15 W0005601.55

N521814.60 W0005224.55

N522032.00 W0005101.20

N522127.80 W0005428.30

Cheers Mike McP.

Brian Hope
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by Brian Hope » Thu Jul 25, 2019 7:35 am

Hi Mike et al, sorry not to get back sooner, been tied up with the magazine, which incidentally contains details of the Rally.
There will be no need to plot the hold on SkyDemon because as previously mentioned, they have been helping us prepare downloadable routings for the hold and circuit for the two runway options, 03 and 21. I had hoped that it was possible to add these to your routing to the Rally but unfortunately it isn't so, what I could do, coming up from Kent's paradise island of sunny Sheppey, would be to put my SkyDemon route to Sywell in as usual, but rather than terminate at the airfield I'd take a look at the downloadable versions' track into the hold, replicate it on my route and terminate it there, having made sure I was giving the airfield a wide berth to the east.
I would also have the two downloaded routes of the hold and circuit in the memory. On those downloaded routes I would have extended the track into the hold backwards, clear of the airfield and back down to Bedford.
Listening out on the way up, I would ascertain which runway was in use and when I got to Bedford I would switch over to the appropriate join, which would take me the rest of the way. The reason my initial route would take me to the entry track into the hold is in case I had trouble switching to the downloaded hold track. I'd at least then be able to enter the hold, using my backup paper chart which would have the hold drawn onto it. Sorry, I'm still not a totally digital believer!

You could also download the SkyDemon routes, note the turn points and plot them on your main route, either preparing two routes or just the one for 21; if 03 was in use on leaving the hold you effectively join directly onto a long left base , and if you have to go around you rejoin the hold from an extended crosswind, easy enough to assimilate that from the 21 routing.

Most important though, whatever nav technique you are using, is to keep a very good lookout throughout. Tablet navigation is a wonderful thing but your eyeballs need to be outside of the cockpit, not glued to the screen!

The downloads and instructions on how to do it, will be on the LAA Rally website by the time the mag comes out (it went to press on Tuesday so should be out by the 1st with a fair wind and a fully functioning Royal Mail). All the Rally info on the website, by the way, is accessible by non members, so they can also download and print off the aide memoire as well as the SkyDemon routes, the full AIC etc.
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ChampChump
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by ChampChump » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:21 am

Just out of idle curiosity, I wonder how many attendees by air are not members. From what I've seen, very few, I imagine. Are there any figures?
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Brian Hope
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by Brian Hope » Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:36 pm

Hi Nic, I'm afraid we don't have those stats. The booking in sheets contain the usual data of type, pilot name, from where etc but not whether they are an LAA member. Although we know how many non-members arrive by road, based on admission ticket sales (the member admission rate is only £6, and non members £12), there is a flat £10 landing fee for single piston aircraft and that includes event access for those on board, so we have no idea of non member aircraft arrivals.

Electronic Conspicuity
Incidentally, we will be conducting an experiment with all arrivals this year as we have included electronic conspicuity into the collected booking in data. There are columns for each of the current systems in use and pilots will be asked to tick the appropriate box of any system they were using when flying in - there is also a None column.
PilotAware are setting up an OGN-R ground station so that the EC from attending aircraft can be captured over the three days, and we can then check the received EC data against the aircraft logged as having been using an EC device to find out how effective it has been. this is almost certainly the first exercise of its kind on such a scale in the UK and will hopefully provide us with some useful data. We also plan to have large graphic displays of arriving traffic on the LAA and PilotAware stands.
Unfortunately we received confirmation of this going ahead after the magazine went to press, so it is not mentioned in the Rally preamble. We will however be letting members and non members know via all means possible - the LAA website, membership email and eNews, and other forums.

Looking at the lengths of my posts I seem to becoming something of a g*******. Must try harder for brevity!
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PaulSS
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by PaulSS » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:04 am

there is a flat £10 landing fee for single piston aircraft and that includes event access for those on board, so we have no idea of non member aircraft arrivals.
Well, that's just begging the question 'why'?

Why do LAA members have to pay the same rate as non-members for the LAA Rally?

It doesn't take a genius to include a 'membership number' field on the booking form. That way LAA members enjoy paying less than non-members AND you get your LAA statistics.

I'm struggling to think of a golf club where green fees are the same for non-members as members :shock:
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by Harry Hopkins » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:22 pm

I believe it's because the landing fee goes to Sywell, not to LAA. We get to go into the exhibition free.

Harry
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mikehallam
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by mikehallam » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:25 pm

A quick thought could be that if 'they' are enticed by this, rather than put off because of greater figure they'll perhaps like the LAA scene and join us as members ?

A sort of Sprat to catch a Mackerel ?

Brian Hope
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by Brian Hope » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:33 am

I have always taken the view that the aircraft flying in are a significant part of the event, so they should get good deal. The standard single engine piston landing fee at Sywell is £16.50 and it's £12 for a microlight. And an overnight stay costs £6.50. Despite having 50% Scottish blood coursing through my veins, I think the £10 landing fee, even on its own is a good deal, but the fact that it also includes admission to the Rally for those on board, and you can camp next to your aircraft for free, and there is no overnight charge, well, 'incredibly good value' wouldn't be overstating it now would it!
And as far as not knowing the number of non members flying in, it's certainly not keeping me awake at might.
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dmarti32
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by dmarti32 » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:47 pm

Booking Slots now open.
David Martin
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David Broom
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by David Broom » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:06 pm

I see that the plea to not exclude other pilots flying in by booking similar slots on multiple days fell on quite a few deaf ears then. I also noticed that someone (mistakenly?) has booked two slots on consecutive minutes. That gives me an idea, perhaps I could book all slots 5 minutes either side of my preferred time and give myself an easy, clear approach. :)
That obviously wouldn't work, not enough slots left.

Daniel Scott
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by Daniel Scott » Mon Aug 05, 2019 6:18 pm

Hi Brian
PM sent.
Regards Daniel Scott
Daniel Scott

Brian Hope
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Re: 2019 Rally

Post by Brian Hope » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:12 pm

Hi Daniel, I sent a reply to your PM but I'm not sure whether you got it. I suggested you call Sywell ATC, the number's on the Sywell website under contacts) and ask for Jeff Bell. He will be able to tell you what you need to know.
All the best, Brian.
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