Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

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Chris Martyr
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by Chris Martyr » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:24 am

Michael , going out of Permit and gathering dust in the corner of a hangar isn't just confined to VP's . An old friend of mine had two beautiful Luton Minors , when he stopped flying , he was forced to give them away. I've seen it happen to Turbulents , D9's , Taylor-Mono's .......

Truth is , these are all 'old school PFA' types . Back then , only about two thirds of projects were ever completed , and their builders were seen as eccentrics , 'birdmen' , or nutty professors . Except in PFA circles , where there was a lot of knowledge , experience and understanding .
Fast fwd. to today . Everyone is building bloody aeroplanes :D , which is good ! LAA's recent stats show a record amount of active PtF types . Just look in 'Project News' , it's not at all unusual to see projects which were delivered at Xmas and were flying for the Summer . Of course , there's a trade-off though isn't there - and we all know what it is! [£££££££££ :lol: ]
Now let's go back to the VP . It took lots of patience and commitment to get them old wood/fabric, classic homebuilds airworthy , and as the previous generation fade away , it will take lots of patient and committed people to restore and revitalise these old birds and get them airworthy again.
Comparatively , it won't cost much financially , but believe me mate , whether you restore/recommission or build from scratch , you'll be grafting !
Some people would rather stick needles in their eyes.....I loved it ..!!

But sometime ,,,,you'll need to stop talking ,,,,and start doing .. :D
And there's a bit of a give-away here .
Michael Brooks wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:23 pm
As for only talking to enthusiasts, fun as that is and great for motivation, it builds a very one-sided picture. I like to get a balanced view of anything where I can - it leads to more informed decision-making.
You've been talking to enthusiasts on here . Enthusiasts who have built , restored and flown a different selection of VP's . and you have most definitely NOT been given just a "one-sided picture". We've all given you the in's/outs and the ups & downs of building/operating a VP . Your "decision making" will never be more "informed" than it is now.
It was the work of one person that guided me into building G-EVPI . Robert Lowe .
I saw his book in my local library in 1990 . Took it home and read it in 2 days [& nights]. Even after finishing it , I had to keep going back and recapping . After taking it back to the library , I went down to SHM and bought my own copy. The thoughts of this , festered within me until 1996 . and the rest , as they say..........................

I did mention what I was up to at the time to some of my flying pals . They all thought I was bloody mad ! Possibly true , but I'm bloody happy as well though !
[I didn't give a **** what they thought anyway.. 8) .]
Look at yourself in the mirror Michael , and say : " did old Chris Martyr make the right decision 30yrs ago ? or should he have procrastinated" .

If you don't have Robert Lowe's book , then buy it ! If you do have Robert's book . Then read it again.. :D

For the unfortunates who haven't read it . I offer this beautiful paragraph from p.14.

" And those of us who do eventually get our funny flying machines into the air , find there a new joy in living and a unbounded sense of freedom which is given to nobody else at all . Others may fly higher or faster and make a rich living from the sky but we still take off into the golden light of the dawn of aviation and oh , how fortunate we are ".

Robert Lowe. D.F.C.
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ChampChump
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by ChampChump » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:15 pm

I've never flown a Veep, but of course, once one has flown a Champ... :lol:

I just wanted to add that compared with the other forum, a wealth of far too much information, this thread is a most welcome beam of sunlight through the grey plethora of airspace news, airfield news and... weather.

Please keep us posted. I look forward to seeing you and Chris standing by your respective prides and joys, on some grass somewhere. In the sun.

I'm going back to plottin' and plannin' something probably impossible.
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Alan Kilbride
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by Alan Kilbride » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:35 pm

Agree with Nic.
This is a really good thread and lots of good information. Well done to the contributors. And also the original poster for his efforts to resurrect his project.
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Chris Martyr
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by Chris Martyr » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:34 pm

ChampChump wrote:I just wanted to add that compared with the other forum
Err yes , it would’ve turned into about 6 pages of scrapping by now............. :lol:

But it has indeed been a very pleasurable thread in which to partake . But I guess I wood say that wood’nt I . [ sorry :oops: ]
I know we’ve had to show Michael a bit of ‘tough love’ here , but I really do hope that one day , we will see his name in the ‘Cleared to Fly’ section of LA mag.
Funny how this old forum of ours can lay dormant for months , then suddenly something just seems to spark it into action .

So what’s all this ‘plannin’ & ‘plottin’ then CC ?
Are we going to see you as a 2020 nominee for the Bill Woodhams Award ?? :D :D :D
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Gerry Holland
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by Gerry Holland » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:31 am

Slightly off topic but......
Do you think a meeting up for an informal bacon sandwich somewhere would be a little exercise for some of the single seat LAA types? Range and speed probably restrict the distance but I'm up for trip to meet up of around 150 miles in one hop as long as fuel available at far end!
Also planning trip to Scotland in late Spring/Summer in a series of hops.
Regards
Gerry

p.s. You are always welcome at White Ox Mead just SW of Bath.
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ChampChump
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by ChampChump » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:33 am

That's seatist, that is.

:)


Chris, you'll have a pm shortly.
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mikehallam
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by mikehallam » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:20 pm

I too always fly solo so are Rans's verboten ??
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Gerry Holland
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by Gerry Holland » Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:51 pm

Firstly ChampChump I hadn't realised all this 'Woke' nonsense had got into aviation too.
Yes I'm seatist it seems! I feel suitably shamed......

Mike. Where are you in West Sussex? I have family in Midhurst area.
Perhaps I can fly down. You are certainly welcome in Somerset...... just dont make eye contact with the locals!

Regards
Gerry
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Chris Martyr
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by Chris Martyr » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:04 pm

Gerry Holland wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 4:51 pm
I have family in Midhurst area.
Rather handy for Goodwood then ... :D ...Would do fine for me .

As for “Seatism” ? Nic is a highly respected solo aviatrix I’ll ‘ave yoo know ......... :D
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mikeblyth
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by mikeblyth » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:02 pm

"Funny how this old forum of ours can lay dormant for months , then suddenly something just seems to spark it into action ."

Bit like that joke about the monks :oops:

Fenland very good venue for any sort of flyin. Ran a Taylor one many years ago. more recent
was a single seater flyin competition. I won, only one to get there :D
Mike Blyth
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by mikehallam » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:34 pm

Re Gerry etc.
Jackrell's Farm airfield is close to the SW corner of Gatwick's zone, just below Horsham. Rather a long stretch to Midhurst.
FWIW Chilsfold Farm (nr Kirdford) is a nice long strip and much better placed for a family visit.
mike

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Gerry Holland
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by Gerry Holland » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:43 pm

Mike thanks for the information on Chilsfold Farm.
I know the area well as we lived near Pulborough for a while and I went to School at North Heath on the A29...... Many years ago!
Regards
Gerry
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Michael Brooks
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by Michael Brooks » Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:11 pm

Thank you to all of you for your words of encouragement re my old project - very much appreciated. Rest assured I am not in any hurry to abandon it, especially after dragging it with me for three decades. :mrgreen:
I've been spending a fair bit of time lately mentally picturing the instrument layout I want - always an interesting challenge with a VP-1 due to the space limitations.
Despite the hurdle of getting LAA approval I'll confess I'm still very tempted by the Pagasus O-100 engine - the sound from just 2 cylinders is even nicer than the VW (and that's saying something - VW's sound amazing in aircraft, way better than they ever do in cars).
I see that Mike Blyth has dipped in too:- Mike, this is just to let you know we've been taking good care of G-AWSN and it's still going well. I hope you're having loads of fun with the Menestrel. :)
If anyone is ever heading up north once the fields dry out a bit I'd be keen to meet up. Scotland is very do-able for me (or will be again once Oban finally sort out their avgas situation). Oban's the furthest from Newtownards I've been so far but I do want to start pushing that envelope as time goes by.
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by mikeblyth » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:41 am

Thats really good to hear Michael. VW or Jabiru VW lots of people with knowledge on these engines. Spares available all over and of course with Leburg fabulous.

Very impressed with the Jabiru. A lot lighter than the VW with starter and a bit more power.
Menestrel is spoiling me, warm and comfortable.
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Chris Martyr
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Re: Why do so many VP-1's fall into disuse?

Post by Chris Martyr » Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:05 pm

Michael Brooks wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:11 pm
I've been spending a fair bit of time lately mentally picturing the instrument layout I want - always an interesting challenge with a VP-1 due to the space limitations.
Having space limitations does the builder a favour though Michael . It stops the temptation for installing too much unnecessary ‘aero-bling’ on the panel .
In the drawings , Bud Evans shows the F3 bulkhead with 2 x holes drilled in it for the oil px gauge and the oil temp. gauge . I believe that may be because he didn’t want anyone drilling anything bigger . Like The bigger holes for an ASI or Alt. Because the f3 bulkhead carries quite large compression loads from the front wing struts .
On mine , after drilling the 2” holes for the oil gauges , I took a sheet of aluminium the same width as the F3 bulkhead and covered it all in , but the Ali still had the 2 x holes in for the oil gauges.
The aluminium panel protruded above the height of the F3 bulkhead , which allowed it to accommodate the ASI , altimeter , CHT , RPM and voltmeter . Plus both ign. switches . Once it was radiused and ‘engine-turned’ it looked a bit like a Bugatti . A proper Bugatti that is [T35] not one of those vulgar new things... :D

Re: the Pegasus engine . I guarantee that the first thing Francis’ team will ask is ; “why not a VW”.
It is highly likely that you will be the UK “launch customer” for this one . Which means that every petty and annoying question they want answering will be batted straight back at you . And it is highly likely that you won’t be able to hang it directly to the firewall either , as you would the VW , so guess who will be the one chasing around for the engine mounting load path/stress data .
Michael , it’s a mod. Mods cost money [and time] ,,,,and by the time it’s all stamped up for installing , you’ll probably be on speed-dial to your local Samaritans ....[sorry mate, :D ,]

And there’s more,,,,check out the price of a replacement Millennium cyl. for an 0-200 . You can buy 4 x 92mm cylinders with pistons for less than £250 at VW Heritage .
Same with the dreaded 0-200 fuel pumps . I cannot remember exactly what a colleague at Deanland paid for his , but they ain’t cheap . A high quality European manufactured fuel pump for a VW is about 30 quid .

Guess I’d better stop now , I can think of about 3 contributors here at least , who fly behind 0-200’s ........Can’t have ‘em getting envious... 8)
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